D&D General Why the resistance to D&D being a game?

[pemerton]

I simply don't agree. Give me something that has nothing to do with hit points.

How can I talk about a fighter's abilities without referencing the core combat resolution mechanic?

 

[pemerton]

Ah. Well, that works out anyway. I don't see beating a lion bare-handed as supernatural. Very, very impressive, but if you're a good enough fighter I can see it.

Do we know how many times this has happened in the history of humanity? Compared to, say, goading someone into attacking?

 

[Micah Sweet]

You've had some replies. At 5th level, a 5e D&D fighter gets two attacks per round, With 18 STR (not unreasonable, given the 4th level ability increase) that is +7 to hit for 5 points of damage per hit. Versus AC 12, that is a 5 required to hit, so the expected damage per attack is 4, so the expected damage per round is 8. That's three to four rounds to kill the lion (depending on the luck of the attack rolls and the use, or non-use, of Action Surge).

(I'm not factoring in any Battlemaster manoeuvres. Nor critical hits. Nor fighting styles.)

Suppose the fighter has DEX 12 and is unarmoured, and hence AC 11. The lion attacks with +5 to hit for either 7 (bite) or 6 (claw) damage. The lion will need a 6 to hit, so expected damage is about 5 per round.

A 5th level fighter has 34 hit points before CON bonuses, which are probably at least +5 hp, and so can stand up to the lion for 8 or so rounds (depending on the luck of the attack rolls and the use, or non-use, of Second Wind).

There are further variables, like whether or not the lion gets to Pounce, but I think that fighter can take that lion without too much prospect of dying. If the fighter has Action Surge and Second Wind available, I reckon they have a good chance to take down two lions barehanded even though the lions will have the benefit of Pack Tactics (raising their expected damage to around 6 per round) while both are still alive.

I would also argue that 5e inflates all numbers unnecessarily, but I suppose that's a wash for the fight.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

The unarmed fighting style lets you deal d8 damage if you're not wielding weapons or a shield, so your punches are about as deadly as a longsword, rapier or longbow.

I doubt even the strongest men alive could just take on a lion with their bare hands, much less other beasts a fighter would be able to kill, like a rhinocerous, elephant or T-Rex.

 

[Micah Sweet]

How can I talk about a fighter's abilities without referencing the core combat resolution mechanic?

There are ways within D&D's basic framework to make damage and healing more realistic. 5e just doesn't care about them.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Do we know how many times this has happened in the history of humanity? Compared to, say, goading someone into attacking?

It's the guaranteed chance of success under any circumstances that's the problem. This has been made clear. You just don't agree that it's a problem, and that's fine. You don't play D&D anyway (yes, I know you used to), so I don't see why you're fighting so hard on this. I'm not saying anything about your preferred games or playstyle.

 

[Gammadoodler]

All of that is supernatural. Please try again.

There are several 'mundane' civilizations of thousand year old folk (ok 1000 might be of an overstatement). Or are all elves, gnomes, and dwarves supernatural?

 

[Micah Sweet]

The unarmed fighting style lets you deal d8 damage if you're not wielding weapons or a shield, so your punches are about as deadly as a longsword, rapier or longbow.

I doubt even the strongest men alive could just take on a lion with their bare hands, much less other beasts a fighter would be able to kill, like a rhinocerous, elephant or T-Rex.

A lion is no bigger than a adult man, I can still see it. Bigger stuff, yeah, that's what weapons are for, and a game better suited to my preference would take that into account.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There are several 'mundane' civilizations of thousand year old folk (ok 1000 might be of an overstatement). Or are all elves, gnomes, and dwarves supernatural?

Yeah, pretty much. And I think only Elves actually live that long.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Yeah, pretty much. And I think only Elves actually live that long.

Cool. Then all those races have supernatural fighters.