D&D General Why the resistance to D&D being a game?

[mamba]

Side note..if I recall correctly, John McLane literally taunts people into fighting him.

people who were out to get him already anyway

No one say it never happens, just that it doesn’t always happen

 

[Micah Sweet]

The point was refuting your assumption that the edge cases are not edge cases because not everyone plays as casual as me. Yours was the initial Ad Populum.

I honestly don't think they are edge cases. Stuff like that comes up all the time IME, and your refutation of that doesn't hold water for me.

 

[Gammadoodler]

it’s not about what they fight, it is about what they are capable of during the fight.

If you do not see a difference between James Bond and Ironman there…

What does this mean to you? John McLane hides in air vents and elevator shafts and pops out of hiding to ambush 1 or 2 humans with semiautomatic and automatic firearms and remote detonated explosives

How is this D&D fighting?

 

[billd91]

The piece I'm relentlessly confused by is how James Bond, John Wick, Robin Hood, and John McClane are viewed as "appropriate D&D archetypes" while superhero media is a "separate but related genre"

Ultimately, because while the superhero genre includes characters within the scope of typical D&D-like archetypes like Captain America, the Punisher, and Black Widow, the superhero genre also incorporates characters like the Hulk, a character pretty well outside the typical list of D&D archetypes.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Again, I think a lot of this is a misaligned rejection of narrativism.

The thing with the taunt is a perfect example:

People are trying to act like this is some kind of mind control or something when what's really going on is the player is taking narrative control to decide their character's taunt is effective against some NPCs.

So when people are demanding 'how can they do this (normal thing normal people do) without supernatural powers, they're forgetting the base reason: because it's part of the story.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Ultimately, because while the superhero genre includes characters within the scope of typical D&D-like archetypes like Captain America, the Punisher, and Black Widow, the superhero genre also incorporates characters like the Hulk, a character pretty well outside the typical list of D&D archetypes.

This begs the question. And not the important part.

How are John Wick, James Bond and John McLane appropriate D&D fighter exemplars? (Or Hawkeye, the Punisher, and Black Widow for that matter)

 

[Azzy]

I honestly don't think they are edge cases. Stuff like that comes up all the time IME, and your refutation of that doesn't hold water for me.

When the rule includes a clause (as suggested) that it only applies to creatures that are capable on understanding your language, anything beyond that IS an edge case. After that, 5e's mantra of ruling not rules covers that. There is only so much that a set of mechanics should try to address else it become too cumbersome for actual play.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Because it is a game and without them being tougher the game would be quickly over.

I just have to note there are all kinds of models for how PCs are handled that do not make them appreciably tougher than real world humans and still don't get them killed constantly; they usually focus more on avoidance than just taking the hit. Even ones that do make them tougher don't do so to the same degree frequently. The "big bag of hit points" approach is a legacy thing with D&D that only its close kin (i.e. games that share other D&Disms like classes, levels and so on) tend to do.

 

[Vaalingrade]

This begs the question. And not the important part.

How are John Wick, James Bond and John McLane appropriate D&D fighter exemplars? (Or Hawkeye, the Punisher, and Black Widow for that matter)

Because they represent cool examples of people fighting things with weapons?

They're how we want to see our characters fight, not the stumbling, sad mess that most actual fights are. Like I don't want my murderous muscle-bound monster man to just go around hugging people and asking them politely to smell his feet like in MMA.

 

[CreamCloud0]

the superhero genre also incorporates characters like the Hulk, a character pretty well outside the typical list of D&D archetypes.

are they really so far out from the classic barbarian archetype, maybe their jumping is a bit outside the norm but is that more a result of DnD's underpowered feats of physical strength? but give hulk a greatsword or battleaxe instead of their fists and they'd fit right in as an orc or goliath barbarian.

edit: ring of jumping is a thing that exists, obviously they found one of those very early on