D&D General Why the resistance to D&D being a game?

[Campbell]

Everyone is free to their own highly idiosyncratic aesthetic preferences over what martial characters should and shouldn't be allowed to accomplish. I do not have an issue with anyone's preferences. What I fail to understand is why some people are so adamant about their framing their preferences in ways that imply other people's preferences are silly or in a way that goes against the grain of the fiction they depict in their games. Describing abilities that are emphatically not depicted as magic or beyond the ken of all men as supernatural comes across as condemning an aesthetic preference where characters can do extraordinary things because they are just that damn good. You might not care for it and absolutely do not have to care for it, but don't be shocked when you get pushback on the framing you are using.

 

[Azzy]

The problem isn’t the die roll. It’s the die roll in any and all circumstances.

But it isn't anymore applicable in all situations than the morale check. It already affects certain subset of opponents. If the DM feels that other circumstances aren't applicable, he can decide that it doesn't work.

 

[Azzy]

I personally dislike morale checks as well.

Personally, I'm a fan.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Let's see how one of the characters quoted as inspirational to D&D dies :

"
The first son of Calatan asked him for a spear, and threatened to satirize Cuchulain if he did not hand it over. Cuchulainn narrowed his eyes and said, “Never let it be said that I am not a generous person,” and he flung the spear straight through the head of the first son of Calatan, killing him instantly. Lugaid Cu Roi pulled out the spear, and threw it back at Cuchulainn, missing him, but striking Laeg, his charioteer and constant companion, through the stomach. So fell Laeg Mac Riangabra, king among charioteers.

The second son of Calatan stepped forward, and asked for a spear. Cuchulainn refused, saying he had given enough to satisfy his honour, but the son of Calatan threatened to satirize all of Ulster. So Cuchulainn said, “Never let it be said that Ulster will lose its honour because of its champion,” and he cast his spear through the second son’s head. Lugaid Cu Roi pulled out the spear and threw it back at Cuchulainn, killing the horse, Lia Macha. Cuchulainn fell to his knees, and wept over her. So fell Lia Macha, king among horses.

The third son of Calatan asked for a spear, or he would satirize Cuchulainn’s family. Cuchualinn said “Never let it be said I brought dishonour on my family,” and threw the spear through his head. Lugaid Cu Roi pulled the spear out, and threw it at Cuchulainn, straight through his stomach, spraying out his intestines. Cuchulainn, mortally wounded, had only enough strength in him to crawl to a nearby lake for a drink of water. His enemies hung back, afraid that he had more strength than he was showing. The water revived him somewhat.

"

Repeatedly insulted into doing something self-destructive.

Should that work regardless of circumstance? I have no objection to the concept, just the execution.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

I want to preserve this post in amber to represent exactly what the issues is.

"At my pinnacle of power, I conjure into being an entire cosmos! The Power of a God in the palm of my hand!"

"I jump good."

"Ah. Clearly we are equals. You can't ask for anything more than that. No seriously. don't you dare do it. It will make me sad."

Yeah, it's not a very balanced book, epic Ranger was just sad. Some cool ideas though.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Oh, you can't make circumstances apply to saving throw of the taunt?


But it does result in a die roll dictating what the creature does in a non-magic way. Something you disapproved of previously.

Not as its written, no. That ability is formatted like a 4e power, and 4e powers generally don't care about anything that's not in the write up.

And making someone attack is different than making them run away.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I certainly don't need anything close to exact encumbrance rules. But it feels like to each person there's a line somewhere.

Anyway, Stark might not be off in his weigh calculation here given the size of the land mass that is compressed into that ball.

View attachment 294317

Look at those weaklings.

Hulk benched a mountain range for them and they're having to work together to lift something that should barely be offsetting local gravity.

Shameful.

 

[Bill Zebub]

And I've started hating the D&D fandom because people keep using this stupid 'button pressing' narrative to describe 'having actual reliable capability as opposed to leaving it all to DM whims'.

Fair enough. Maybe "button pushing," as a phrase, is equal and opposite to "Mother May I?"

(Although I don't think it's the "D&D fandom" calling it 'button pressing', it's the anti-fans.)

 

[Micah Sweet]

We already know that people don't act rationally yet you assume that everyone does. That's what the will save is for. If they fail the save they stop acting rationally. It's exactly like a fear effect. If they fail the save, they stop acting rationally.

But anyway, you are arguing that the targets of this ability are aware that acting on the taunt is against self preservation. That seems like a bad assumption since again it assumes they are rational. What if the point of the taunt is that it makes the taunting barbarian seem like an open target?

You are saying: Not attacking the barbarian is the rational choice, but how do you (or they) know that is the case? There is no reason to assume that, since the characters in the setting are aware of the counter attack ability.

This is why circumstances should apply. There will be situations where your target is just not going to attack you no matter how badly they roll. The ability as written doesn't allow for that. That's my problem with it.

 

[mamba]

What does this mean to you? John McLane hides in air vents and elevator shafts and pops out of hiding to ambush 1 or 2 humans with semiautomatic and automatic firearms and remote detonated explosives

How is this D&D fighting?

nothing he does is outside the range of what I would expect a D&D Fighter to be able to do (if you ignore the setting / technology).

The same is not true for Ironman, Hulk, …