Unpopular opinions go here

[Cadence]

Duplicate.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Oh man, heads will explode when new terms are developed for A.I.

 

[Aldarc]

Unpopular opinion: playing an RPG only requires playing your character in pawn stance. Anything more is you deciding you need to do all that. You don’t need to be a writer, an actor, a cosplayer, or a voice actor to play an RPG.

I also think that this is why computer and video game RPGs count as RPGs.

Payn's mostly got this covered. The "tabletop" in TT is more a designation of the shared, communal nature of the medium, rather than physical space.

I kinda like, if not prefer, the Japanese use of "table talk" to "table top" in this case.

 

[MichaelSomething]

"The greatest illusion of this world is the illusion of separation. Things you think are separate and different are actually one and the same.

We are all one people. But live as if divided."

Pathik; Avatar: The Last Airbender

 

[overgeeked]

An RPG is a style of game, not the platform it's played on. Which is why phrases like "tabletop RPG" and "computer RPG" and others still make sense. A tabletop RPG is one you play around the tabletop, even if virtual. A computer RPG is one you play on the computer. Any definition of RPG that includes certain platforms while excluding others is wrong on its face.

 

[Gradine]

Sorry, but that's a terrible definition of "tabletop." You might as well say it's a computer game because we're all using our phones, tablets, and computers to play on.

And how many "Board Games" have you played that don't actually have a physical board? I can't count on one hand the number of "computer" and "video" games I've legitimately played on my cellphone, or is Icewind Dale suddenly now a phone game? Is an audiobook an actual book? And when's the last time you watched a film on actual film?

Media that outgrows its original format is not required to totally rebrand itself just because the name is no longer technically accurate. It's not a rebranding or rechristening; in fact it's the exact opposite of that; it's sticking to a name that has surpassed what the name originally meant, because that's the name that works.

Show me a definition of TTRPG that includes D&D played through a VTT but doesn't include D&D played with a present, reactive DM using a homemade Neverwinter Nights module, and I'll show you a definition that is nearly meaningless in its exclusivity.

 

[Reynard]

Just to clarify, Snarf was talking about ttRPGs and not RPGs in general.

I'm not sure how, having mentioned LARPs and freeform on the bus.

Edit: Are you getting at that you think the MMORPG interaction between players is the same as the ttRPG?

Insofar as we are using "TT" to make a distinction from what we traditionally call CRPGs or even MMORPG players not using it to support their roleplay. If I had to give a definition of "TTRPG" I wouldn't make much of the "tabletop" part given the increasing set of tools at our disposal to play. I would say that the important parts of the definition are that it includes at least two people roleplaying their characters (that itself has a very broad definition; you don't have to talk in a funny voice to be roleplaying) with some associated set of mechanics to systematize the resolution and/or outcome of events. So called "traditional" RPGs include things like GMs, but that is not inherent in the definition of "TTRPG."

Now, do i think there are many groups playing a "TTRPG" with WoW? No. But it is theoretically possible and with the millions of people that do play WoW and my experience with some of them that are really, really into the role-play aspect, I feel confident in saying that whatever the number is, it is non-zero.

 

[Gradine]

The difference is in the specified diegetic framework.

It is necessarily created by the interaction between players (that would be the "GM-less" game) or between player(s) and GM(s). Within the definition I prefer, that requires ... humans.*

An interaction between player(s) and a computer is not an interaction that creates a diegetic framework that enables the same meaningful interaction. That's what excludes single-player CRPGs and MMORPGs.

A player playing with himself ... um ... solo ttRPGs also doesn't fall within this definition.

The game isn't created by the rules (as we all know), but is created by the interaction ... the process of interaction is role-playing.

What we are saying is that this type of interpersonal interaction is not only possible but actually fairly common within the framework of MMORPGs.

 

[payn]

I'm not sure how, having mentioned LARPs and freeform on the bus.

Insofar as we are using "TT" to make a distinction from what we traditionally call CRPGs or even MMORPG players not using it to support their roleplay. If I had to give a definition of "TTRPG" I wouldn't make much of the "tabletop" part given the increasing set of tools at our disposal to play. I would say that the important parts of the definition are that it includes at least two people roleplaying their characters (that itself has a very broad definition; you don't have to talk in a funny voice to be roleplaying) with some associated set of mechanics to systematize the resolution and/or outcome of events. So called "traditional" RPGs include things like GMs, but that is not inherent in the definition of "TTRPG."

Now, do i think there are many groups playing a "TTRPG" with WoW? No. But it is theoretically possible and with the millions of people that do play WoW and my experience with some of them that are really, really into the role-play aspect, I feel confident in saying that whatever the number is, it is non-zero.

There will always be some bleed between the categories. Just because some folks role play like a TTRPG in Wow, doesn't suddenly make it a TTRPG. Just because you use apps and/or a VTT doesn't mean you are now playing a MMORPG.

The usefulness of the terms is in the general sense, not the specific. YMMV.

 

[overgeeked]

And how many "Board Games" have you played that don't actually have a physical board? I can't count on one hand the number of "computer" and "video" games I've legitimately played on my cellphone, or is Icewind Dale suddenly now a phone game? Is an audiobook an actual book? And when's the last time you watched a film on actual film?

Media that outgrows its original format is not required to totally rebrand itself just because the name is no longer technically accurate. It's not a rebranding or rechristening; in fact it's the exact opposite of that; it's sticking to a name that has surpassed what the name originally meant, because that's the name that works.

Show me a definition of TTRPG that includes D&D played through a VTT but doesn't include D&D played with a present, reactive DM using a homemade Neverwinter Nights module, and I'll show you a definition that is nearly meaningless in its exclusivity.

An RPG is a broad style of game. Tabletop, computer, Japanese, Western, MMO, solo, GM-less, etc are adjectives that modify the noun RPG. They are platforms to play on or styles of play, they are not definitional aspects of RPG...which is why CRPG, MMORPG, solo RPG, etc all make sense.

Torturing the definition of "tabletop" to make it somehow abstractly apply to all RPGs is more than a bit ridiculous.