D&D General The Crab Bucket Fallacy

[Crimson Longinus]

The issue is that noncombat rolls in 5e are single checks by default in 5e.

4 party member= 4 primary scores= 4 members will be default for checks.

And the 5e rules for siding is super permissive. And its subsystems like language and exploration are easily overcome with magic.

4e fixed this with skill challenges and multiple check. EVERYONE ROLLs every Time anything important happens.

There are group checks in 5e. That's pretty similar to skill challenge.

 

[Minigiant]

There are group checks in 5e. That's pretty similar to skill challenge.

Theyre nothing similar.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Theyre nothing similar.

Um, yes they are. It is a type of a skill challenge.

 

[Minigiant]

Um, yes they are. It is a type of a skill challenge.

No they aren't.

One is "Everyone roll Perception"

The other is a 2 page explanation of each PC rolling different checks at different DC with different effects towards a combined success and failure pool to contribute to a group outcome.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

No they aren't.

One is "Everyone roll Perception"

The other is a 2 page explanation of each PC rolling different checks at different DC with different effects towards a combined success and failure pool to contribute to a group outcome.

Right. So the former is a skill challenge where the only allowed skill is perception. And of course it is not hard to allow other skills if you want.

 

[Minigiant]

Right. So the former is a skill challenge where the only allowed skill is perception. And of course it is not hard to allow other skills if you want.

Again nope.

Different DCs
Different outcomes
Combined success
Ordering matters

 

[Raiztt]

As a subclass of sorcerer. Take away the tedious "you get this random thing like dice manipulation tricks" subclasses.

No I'm saying wizard should eat sorcerer.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Again nope.

Different DCs

Differnt from what? In either system the GM can choose the DC they feel appropriate.

Different outcomes

Again, how?

Combined success

What does this mean?

Ordering matters

How?

 

[Oofta]

The issue is that noncombat rolls in 5e are single checks by default in 5e.

4 party member= 4 primary scores= 4 members will be default for checks.

And the 5e rules for siding is super permissive. And its subsystems like language and exploration are easily overcome with magic.

4e fixed this with skill challenges and multiple check. EVERYONE ROLLs every Time anything important happens.

I regularly set up challenges where everyone needs to roll. It's not like there's anything forbidding it. In other cases multiple people need to use the same or related skills. I think they should, and hopefully will, talk about this more in the 2024 DMG but there's no inherent restriction in the game.

If the group is okay with one person being the go to guy, that's fine. In that case, you don't need anyone else good at that one thing and having multiple people good at the same thing adds no value to the group. Of course just because one person is rolling the die, it doesn't mean others aren't contributing or participating meaningfully in any game I've played. There's planning, deciding what direction to take, assisting in persuasion checks, RP, discussing what just happened and who they should trust, etc..

But if you run a game where one person can always be the person rolling for skill X, why does it matter if the fighter can't compete with the hypothetical bard*? If the bard is even one point above everyone else in the party then based on the other things people have said, that PC that comes in second place can't even compete. So giving the fighter anything short of an ability that surpasses the bard's ability, who's supposed to be the guy good at this stuff, is just a waste of time.

It's not an issue with the structure of the game if the DM doesn't ensure that multiple people share the spotlight if they want it.

* I rarely see people playing bards. I've seen two that I remember and one was by a guy that went through characters like tissue paper.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It's just another thing in 5e that resembles something from 4e if it had been ejected from the vehicle in a high speed crash.