D&D General The Crab Bucket Fallacy

[Thomas Shey]

I'm sure not having to hit a 50-100mil sales goal helped.

Well, yeah, that's true too.

 

[Micah Sweet]

None of that says it isn't a good game. It just says it isn't a good game for you.

True, just like 4e is a bad game for me. But I never expect anyone to advocate for preferences they don't share.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No. How well it serves its intended audience matters. Anything else is tunnel vision.

We all live in our own tunnels. As I said, I don't expect anyone to argue in favor of someone else's preferences, particularly if its a zero sum game, as some of this stuff definitely is in a single game. Choices have to be made. Why should I advocate they be made against my best interests? The majority already does that.

 

[Pedantic]

There was never a lack of subset who wanted a game with less of the 3e era problems that PF1e had, and they had nowhere to go with the ones that didn't, since PF1e's publication level was so extensive. They could see if they could resell material to the already satisfied base, or try to get ones that weren't satisfied. They bet on the latter, and unlike the 4e experience with WOTC, it mostly worked.

I mean, there's me. As much time as I spend wailing in the wilderness for a fully explicated skill system, I still have to accept I'm basically a constituency of one.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I mean, there's me. As much time as I spend wailing in the wilderness for a fully explicated skill system, I still have to accept I'm basically a constituency of one.

Explicated?
Have you checked out BRP or GURPs they're pretty skill-centric.

 

[payn]

We all live in our own tunnels. As I said, I don't expect anyone to argue in favor of someone else's preferences, particularly if its a zero sum game, as some of this stuff definitely is in a single game. Choices have to be made. Why should I advocate they be made against my best interests? The majority already does that.

Folks are also completely capable of living in and out of their tunnels. For example, things bug me about PF2, it would never be my preferred game, but I can also look at it objectively and understand its designed well. Give a try some time.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

OTOH, if the alternate reality 4e does OK because they just put out an OGL with it and kept Paizo on board, there'd definitely have been no PF1 or 2.

Yeah, that's a counterfactual that's not necessarily true (same with the Stranger Things, by the way).

It's been documented that the designers at WoTC knew that there would be problems with 4e's reception, and chose to ignore it. It's also been documented that Paizo was not only aware of this ... but that they got the courage to fully move ahead with PF when they sent Jason Buhlman to the developer playtest of 4e and he reported back that it would be divisive.

Again, this isn't to rehash what has already been stated many times. There were a lot of issues involved that caused 4e to not be as successful as Hasbro wanted. But it's pretty well known at this time that the people in charge were aware that it would be divisive, and that this failed to inform them when it came to rolling it out ... arguably, they even chose to make this a selling point, for reasons that, in retrospect, seem downright crazy.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Folks are also completely capable of living in and out of their tunnels. For example, things bug me about PF2, it would never be my preferred game, but I can also look at it objectively and understand its designed well. Give a try some time.

Acknowledging that there are good things about games you don't like all that much, and bad things about games you do like a great deal does not seem to be a common skill. I guess it's not much in demand, and there are no classes teaching it.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Folks are also completely capable of living in and out of their tunnels. For example, things bug me about PF2, it would never be my preferred game, but I can also look at it objectively and understand its designed well. Give a try some time.

Completely agree. For people that want a game with more coherent math, a strong emphasis on more tactical play, more "crunch," and a company with a long history of strong adventures ... PF2 is an excellent choice.

 

[Oofta]

So, we know that 14 (+2) Prof (+2) at level 1 - Moderate (DC 15) = 50% ya?

"Well thats too hard Scribe." OK, so you chop that down to the 'easy' DC of 10, and 'easy' becomes 5, which you...can now only fail on a natural 1 which seems...poor but whatever, thats how we are adjusting things.

So now Easy is so trivially done, why bother?

So that the Characters who have no stats or prof in a given task can do things easier? So we can give the Fighter a chance in Social?

Why?

If you actually follow the rules, it should also be quite easy to get advantage on a check, just have anyone else in the party contribute to the conversation. That, and of course, the DCs are just a general guideline not a hard-and-fast rule. I don't see what the issue is.