Unpopular opinions go here

[Emberashh]

I think needing to have that is, in and of itself, a sign of complexity.

I would say its more accurate that its a sign of inaccessibility and impracticality.

Its akin to wanting to have a proper joystick for a proper flight sim (ie, not arcade style like in Battlefield). These games aren't always all that complex, but they do become impractical to play with a mouse and keyboard, and only more so if the complexity actually does go up, and so the desire to have specialized equipment goes up.

Likewise in a TTRPG, having a lot of prewritten spells isn't really a complexity issue. It just isn't practical to memorize all of them, so it becomes more efficient to reference them. Cards are a more specialized tool for that than a book is.

DND style spells aren't even remotely complex compared to something like Ars or DCC.

Conflating accessibility and practicality with complexity is the wrong approach, is my point.

 

[Bedrockgames]

If we're hitting the "Making up important elements of commonly used spells is a virtue" I'm very much done here.

I love it. This is very much a mileage may vary again. But I find games that do that work wonderfully for me (the white box in particular, I love the openness of the spells to GM interpretation)

 

[Emberashh]

Speaking of GM interpretation I recently (as in the last 10 minutes) discovered someone elses choice critique of PBTA; they're games that make GMs carry the bicycle.

Ie, the System doesn't carry as much of the load as it should, unintuitively putting more strain on the GM rather than alleviating it.

Naturally, 5e is more or less just as guilty but from a different angle. But, this all underscores my own interpretation of those games (and 5es insistence on rulings for that matter) and highlights why I'm such a stickler about synchronicity and integration in game design.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Conflating accessibility and practicality with complexity is the wrong approach, is my point.

I get your point. I just don't agree with it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think needing to have that is, in and of itself, a sign of complexity.

You don't need spell cards. It's a reference book. You need to know something, look it up.

 

[Thomas Shey]

You don't need spell cards. It's a reference book. You need to know something, look it up.

Like that's a virtue when you have any significant number of spells to keep track of. We're not talking about games where people only know a half dozen spells.

 

[MGibster]

It seemed utterly dumb to run it any other way. I've heard horror stories of Keepers legit stopping games after a failed roll for a bottleneck clue. It's both a design flaw in the game's mechanics and a RAW or nothing flaw in the Keepers when they run it that way.

And you know what? I always appreciate running into people who love a game and are still able to recognize the flaws. Admitting CoC has flaws doesn't diminish what is arguably one of all all time great RPGs.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Like that's a virtue when you have any significant number of spells to keep track of. We're not talking about games where people only know a half dozen spells.

I see it as a virtue, yes. I want tons of options, and I don't mind a big book full of 'em. I don't need D&D to become even simpler because some people think the list's too long.

 

[Hussar]

DMs can pick one of 6 DCs out of a Chart and an Attribute and have the player roll a d20 to beat/match the number.

No need for anything else, doesn't matter what it is thats being rolled for.

Now lets hear why thats totally different.

Doesn’t work for saving throws?

Doesn’t apply to a shopping list of effects?

Doesn’t tell me anything about adjudicating effects - how much damage is done, is this a save for half or not, what rider effects happen, what impact does positioning happen, what is the impact of the twenty or thirty status effects DnD has…

Need I continue?

 

[Jd Smith1]

Nope. If a particular bit of content isn't in active use, it has absolutely zero bearing on the game; it is in a fact a waste of time to learn, memorize, or otherwise "apply" it when it literally isn't being nused.

Again, pay attention to what I am actually saying.

I am. What you are saying is incorrect, as several others have pointed out. But you don't listen.