Unpopular opinions go here

[billd91]

Tasha's Caudron of Everything is 5e's version of Skills and Powers.
If you didn't mind Skills and Powers why you be hating on Tasha's now?

(ducks)

It's really not. And Skills and Powers had all sorts of design problems, far beyond any complaint about floating ASIs.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I hated skills and powers. We didn’t even allow it at the tables I played at

I was intrigued with Skills and Powers but we never got to use it sadly.
As a DM I'm hating Tasha's in that so many ideas that for me, hurt the game, are derived from there - and I'm specifically talking about the classes that exist not the floating ASI's.

 

[Hussar]

this isn’t an everyone wins situation. Not everyone thinks D&D gets better when you expand choice in race and class options. One reason I go back to 2E is it puts caps on these choices

How is this not an everyone wins situation?

You can absolutely have what you want. No problems at all. Traditional elves are right there. Put those inherent bonuses in the right place, choose the right class and you're good to go. You 100% have every single thing you had before.

And, now, I can have everything I want too.

The only thing we lost is the ability to force other people to play the way we want them to play.

 

[AnotherGuy]

It's really not. And Skills and Powers had all sorts of design problems, far beyond any complaint about floating ASIs.

I disagree. And like Tasha's doesn't have design issues?

 

[billd91]

I disagree. And like Tasha's doesn't have design issues?

Any design issues with Tasha's pales by comparison to the festering pile that is Skills and Powers.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I was intrigued with Skills and Powers but we never got to use it sadly.
As a DM I'm hating Tasha's in that so many ideas that for me, hurt the game, are derived from there - and I'm specifically talking about the classes that exist.

It was one of these books some people loved. For me it broke the game and totally changed the feel (it also felt like D&D trying to catch up to competition which I think never worked for D&D--dungeons and dragons is the never the cool, cutting edge game, but it is a fun game when it sticks to what works about it)

 

[Bedrockgames]

How is this not an everyone wins situation?

You can absolutely have what you want. No problems at all. Traditional elves are right there. Put those inherent bonuses in the right place, choose the right class and you're good to go. You 100% have every single thing you had before.

And, now, I can have everything I want too.

The only thing we lost is the ability to force other people to play the way we want them to play.

Because for a lot of people what makes races and classes work is they function the same for everyone at the table. If people are just customizing this stuff, then that bonus is the choice, the choice isn't about the race (the racial choice becomes less meaningful). Again, I get why you wouldn't want the approach I am advocating. There is nothing wrong with wanting more choice. But I think some people in this thread have a blind spot for why others might want more restrictions around how racial bonuses are handed out. It isn't a win-win. Not everyone has to like the same things you like in a game.

 

[Bedrockgames]

The only thing we lost is the ability to force other people to play the way we want them to play.

I think this is an unfair way of characterizing it (it almost frames putting constraints on character choices in a game as a political thing or something). The issue is, expanding choice here doesn't always improve play. Back in the 90s one thing that killed campaigns, at least in my opinion, was players always wanting to be non-standard humanoids (i.e. people who wanted to be dark elves all the time or other monstrous races). The games tended to function better when those were not on the table, or at least when the GM had the power to put the breaks on players making any kind of character they read about in a fantasy novel. Part of that is balance consideration. Part of it is flavor and tone. I am not saying a race like dark elves should never be on the table. But I think the game functions better when you have a set number of racial choices and those choices all have mechanical effects that are consistent. And you can offer choices within the race, but even there I would be careful because another thing I think makes D&D work so well is the simplicity of choosing race and class (they are these simple packages that give you a bag of goodies you don't have to fiddle with)

 

[Hussar]

Because for a lot of people what makes races and classes work is they function the same for everyone at the table. If people are just customizing this stuff, then that bonus is the choice, the choice isn't about the race (the racial choice becomes less meaningful). Again, I get why you wouldn't want the approach I am advocating. There is nothing wrong with wanting more choice. But I think some people in this thread have a blind spot for why others might want more restrictions around how racial bonuses are handed out. It isn't a win-win. Not everyone has to like the same things you like in a game.

Isn't that what I said - we lost the ability to force our preferences on other people? That, as you say, for "a lot of people" they can only enjoy the game if other people are forced to play the way they want.

I have pretty much zero sympathy for those people. I'm sorry, but, I just don't care. Forcing other people to play a certain way so that I can enjoy the game is pretty much the opposite of everything I want out of a game. See, because you say,

Not everyone has to like the same things you like in a game.

but then insist that I MUST play the way you want to play or you won't enjoy the game. If that's what we lost? Well? Good. That wasn't worth keeping anyway.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Isn't that what I said - we lost the ability to force our preferences on other people? That, as you say, for "a lot of people" they can only enjoy the game if other people are forced to play the way they want.

I have pretty much zero sympathy for those people. I'm sorry, but, I just don't care. Forcing other people to play a certain way so that I can enjoy the game is pretty much the opposite of everything I want out of a game. See, because you say,


but then insist that I MUST play the way you want to play or you won't enjoy the game. If that's what we lost? Well? Good. That wasn't worth keeping anyway.

You can play whatever, however, you want. But that isn't a version of the game I want to play or buy. Characterizing that as some kind of gamer tyranny, I really don't have words for that