Are Superhero films dying?

[Clint_L]

Writing in a superhero movie sets a pretty low bar. By that measure it was Tolstoy

Eh...there are some pretty well written superhero movies, and IMO The Batman was definitely not one of them. Riddler's plot was nonsensical, and the need to add an extra act straight out of a disaster film was both tonally jarring and made Batman look incompetent.

The Dark Knight, on the other hand...

I've lost track; is The Batman part of the DCEU or whatever they are calling it? Or is that still a thing?

 

[Clint_L]

Plus the best version of that aspect of them already exists in the form of The Incredibles, so how do they capture that without just copying it?

I thumbs upped your post out of respect for The Incredibles because I think it is the best superhero film ever made.

That said, I think the resemblances between it and the classic incarnation of The Fantastic Four, in terms of both being a superhero family, are often overstated. The Incredibles are a nuclear family with kids and duelling mid-life crises, which is a totally different dynamic than what was happening in the Lee/Kirby FF, which was more like a complicated romance plus tension between Reed and Ben.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Plus the best version of that aspect of them already exists in the form of The Incredibles, so how do they capture that without just copying it?

Indeed, The Incredibles is very close to a bootleg FF movie, but because they weren't restricted by the lore, they were able to restructure the ages and relationships, and to set it in an a sort of "mid-century modern" setting (which I believe is technically now but is obviously referencing the early 1960s hard), where in both regards it made more sense.

(The only place it falls down somewhat is the villain, particularly his confused message which the film centers a bit too much and slightly jars the tone - I think they took on a little too much Bond influence with him. But FF movies have struggled with Doom even more than that, so...)

The writing is terrible!

Hey! Mean! It's like the fourth best-written Batman movie! (Batman 1989, Batman Returns, and The Dark Knight ahead of it, but the other Nolan Bat movies and "Ice to meet you!" and so on behind.)

Oh, I mean that's not counting any of the animated Batman though, obviously Mask of the Phantasm is coming in at #2 or even #1 if they're included.

 

[Ryujin]

Indeed, The Incredibles is very close to a bootleg FF movie, but because they weren't restricted by the lore, they were able to restructure the ages and relationships, and to set in an a sort of "mid-century modern" setting (which I believe is technically now but is obviously referencing the early 1960s hard), where in both regards it made more sense.

(The only place it falls down somewhat is the villain, particularly his confused message which the film centers a bit too much and slightly jars the tone - I think they took on a little too much Bond influence with him. But FF movies have struggled with Doom even more than that, so...)

Hey! Mean! It's like the fourth best-written Batman movie! (Batman 1989, Batman Returns, and The Dark Knight ahead of it, but the other Nolan Bat movies and "Ice to meet you!" and so on behind.)

Oh, I mean that's not counting any of the animated Batman though, obviously Mask of the Phantasm is coming in at #2 or even #1 if they're included.

Why the DCCU hasn't leaned heavily on the teams from the animated series/movies is, quite frankly, beyond me.

 

[Gradine]

I once read someone talking about Batman villains as mostly being "just dudes in gimp suits with surprisingly good human resources departments", and I give credit to The Batman for actually addressing the "where are all these faceless goons coming from?" question.

 

[trappedslider]

I once read someone talking about Batman villains as mostly being "just dudes in gimp suits with surprisingly good human resources departments", and I give credit to The Batman for actually addressing the "where are all these faceless goons coming from?" question.

 

[Kaodi]

Seems like a fair point. You only get to be addressed as Dr. when using your legal name.

Though I suppose Mr. Freeze could make the point that in pronunciation, if not writing, his legal name and his villain name are the same.

I also wonder whether calling them Dr. Quinzel and Dr. Isley would make them more or less homicidal towards you.

 

[Kaodi]

The Variety review is in and it is not good.

 

[Cadence]

Tickets acquired for Saturday showing of Marvels. (First CM movie was one of the household teenagers favorites, and enjoyed Ms. Marvel). Rotten Tomatoes isn't awful right now, so will hope the optimistic ones are right and the others just have FOMO for calling the end of Marvel movies. I assume it will beat being home doing housework if nothing else.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I've just glanced at a few reviews, but some of them are really really harsh. 'this movie is a mess that should have been deemed unreleasable'

I just get the vibe that plenty of reviewers are going extra-hard on Marvels, after years of automatically thumbs-upping anything MCU. But now there's blood in the water (with the last few years of, uh, quality and more pricey movies failing than ever) and Marvels gets to bear the brunt of the readjustment.

I'm expecting the usual MCU stuff, with misguided ties to other properties, with too few character moments over messy CGI, etc. We'll see.