Are Superhero films dying?

[Thomas Shey]

Horror movies have changed hugely and repeatedly to stay relevant. Luckily they're cheap to make and so people can experiment easily enough and new subgenres or approaches appear extremely regularly. An awful lot of successful horror movies are, in fact, less about things that were considered to define horror in earlier decades.

That might not be the best example for your point.

When someone is arguing, essentially, to make them less distinguishable from conventional action-hero movies, I think its the perfect example. While there are experimental horror movies off the beaten track that have worked, most of them are still distinctly the genre they are.

 

[Ryujin]

STOP BASING STUFF ON COMICS!

Yup. Graphic novels. That's where it's at.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Snarf let's be real there's a very valid question as to whether about 50% of the screenwriters in Hollywood have, in fact, ever either read a book of their own volition (particularly after college), or voluntarily a watched movie made before 1980. The rest have read and seen plenty, for sure.

...I honestly don't know how to respond to that.

There's a lot of things you can say about the quality of writing, but making up random statistics that aren't even close to true isn't really helpful, and it's kind of a jerk thing to say about the people who are working in the Business.

Making it as a writer in Hollywood is tough. I know a bunch of them. But implying that they are semi-literate morons who have never read a book is not a great look.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

When someone is arguing, essentially, to make them less distinguishable from conventional action-hero movies

I think that's an oversimplification to the point where it's preventing you from understanding the actual issues.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

...I honestly don't know how to respond to that.

There's a lot of things you can say about the quality of writing, but making up random statistics that aren't even close to true isn't really helpful, and it's kind of a jerk thing to say about the people who are working in the Business.

Making it as a writer in Hollywood is tough. I know a bunch of them. But implying that they are semi-literate morons who have never read a book is not a great look.

I think you might be being a little oversensitive due to being in the industry and presumably working closely with writers. I'm obviously joking with the figure, and I suggested the other half made up for it anyway. If I got this upset every time someone said a mean jokey thing about lawyers or IT workers, I'd permanently be upset (and I bet you don't get upset when people say mean things about lawyers!).

My point is merely that there is a very great variance in how literate and film-aware writers in Hollywood seem to be, and it doesn't seem to correlate particularly closely to success as a screenwriter.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I think that's an oversimplification to the point where it's preventing you from understanding the actual issues.

It might be an oversimplification of yours. After several exchanges, I'm extremely unconvinced its an oversimplification of some people in this thread's positions.

 

[Kaodi]

After watching the trailer for Kraven I am definitely coming over to the point of view that superhero movies are dying.

I am ready for some new near-future dystopian overlords.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I think you might be being a little oversensitive due to being in the industry and presumably working closely with writers. I'm obviously joking with the figure, and I suggested the other half made up for it anyway. If I got this upset every time someone said a mean jokey thing about lawyers or IT workers, I'd permanently be upset (and I bet you don't get upset when people say mean things about lawyers!).

My point is merely that there is a very great variance in how literate and film-aware writers in Hollywood seem to be, and it doesn't seem to correlate particularly closely to success as a screenwriter.

I think that this is a misunderstanding and I'm going to push back on this very hard. Here, let's take the most recent movie, because that's an easy one. The Marvels has three credited screenwriters-

Nia DaCosta, Megan McDonnell, and Elissa Karasik.

The first writer is the director; while there are strict rules regarding writing credits, it's safe to assume that she received the credit for alterations to the script, not for the original screenplay.

Megan McDonnell graduated from Harvard (member of the Hasty Pudding Club) and has an MFA from USC.
Elissa Karasik graduated from Stanford and was known for having a prior #1 film on the the Black List (Frat Boy Genius).

Why do I put this in? Because the vast, vast, VAST majority of writers in Hollywood are actually incredibly smart and literary. You don't make it there unless you're really good. It's an unfortunate truism that the Business will ... well, affect scripts. That the writer's work is going to be hit by "notes," and by interference, and by changes. That's what happens.

But it's just bizarre to think that some of the most highly paid and competitive jobs in the world for writers ... don't attract good writers. In fact, it's a trope that we see over and over again in Hollywood. Ever see Barton Fink?

Hollywood has amazing writers. They just don't always use them.

 

[Dire Bare]

Which is to say, not very. The problem is, most comics are written quickly, for a young and undiscerning audience. Occasionally, by the law of averages, they hit on a good idea, but those have all been done to death now. My solution is simple: STOP BASING STUFF ON COMICS!

The are a couple of centuries worth of untapped literature available, but even then, it's the same old things over and over, from Pride & Prejudice to Dune. I don't think film makers ever read books, they just look at what has previously been turned into movies.

They should have kept the silly space stuff separate from the grounded Earth stuff.

But it's probably inevitable that if you keep pouring silliness into the same old world eventually it will become overloaded and break.

Plenty of movies are based off of books. Good and bad. Plenty of movies have been based off of comics. Good and bad.

No reason we can't have both.

Comics as a source are not the problem. The "problem" is that . . . some movies are good and some are bad. And some are okay.

Hollywood isn't going to stop mining comic book sources anytime soon, nor should they. That would be very silly.

 

[Kaodi]

The question is whether the MCU is basically becoming like the Arrowverse, where later seasons felt like they lost the focus their shows originally had. And as we can see now, despite the popularity and longevity of the Arrowverse, it is done now.