D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Monk Discussion

[Bolares]

Deflect Attack is good but one of the abilities that I didn't think NEEDED improvement.

Deflect attacks is an essential piece that helps solve one of the two main problems with the class.... monks die a lot because they are squishy.

 

[Bolares]

so as an example, lets compare a lvl 3 monk to a Ogre, a nice solid "big hitter" at CR2. The ogre does 13 damage vs the monk's reduction of 3 (dex) + 3 lev + 1d10 = ~11.5. The rogue's uncanny dodge would reduce about 6.5.

yup. But I think that's the point. Is deflect attacks strong in ideal situations? YES. Does the monk need help in those specific situations? absolutelly. Does that mean deflect attacks is too strong and should be nerfed? no! It's the main reason monks will survive at tables, we like or characters surviving right?

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I guess another thing Monks could do with is something similar to what Barbarians, Druids and Clerics have with skills, the ability to add or use wisdom with some select skills. Or maybe a spend a DP to add a Martial Arts Die roll bonus to some skill check.

I still want some sort of build variance/choice for Monks like Fighting Styles for Fighters/Rangers/Paladins or Orders for Clerics.

So maybe 3 things (including my suggestions of a pick something special for Stunning Strike), and then I'll be fine with Monks, who are "almost there" with this version.

 

[Shardstone]

The only change I would ask for is alternatives to stunning strike at high levels. It would be cool if the core monk got a few different strike techniques they could replace it with. Open hand is a good example of this.

Alterbatively, an early level exploration or social feature would be nice.

Overall tho i am satisfied.

 

[Gorck]

I’m willing to bet that the Monk Weapons list isn’t supposed to say “melee” at all, and its inclusion is just a typo. It is probably meant to match their Weapon Proficiencies, but they couldn’t just say “which are the weapons with which you are proficient” because of multiclassing issues.

 

[mellored]

Why are we saying deflect attacks is too strong?

To be clear. No one is saying to remove it.

Just that the number might be a bit too high. I haven't done the math, so I don't really have an opinion on that yet.

 

[Clint_L]

so as an example, lets compare a lvl 3 monk to a Ogre, a nice solid "big hitter" at CR2. The ogre does 13 damage vs the monk's reduction of 3 (dex) + 3 lev + 1d10 = ~11.5. The rogue's uncanny dodge would reduce about 6.5.

So a monk with decent rolls can almost entirely soak the ogre's attacks (and that's before things like using the dodge action). That's a big change from what they had before.

Now is that really a problem? Personally I don't think so. Ultimately this new monk is VERY good against single targets. Aka if you have the scenario where your in a tight tunnel and its one melee creature versus your front line, the monk might actually be your best bet for that position. But their ability weakens dramatically versus 2+ creatures, in which case your high AC fighters or raging barbs tend to do much better.

So to me this new ability:

1) Provides a general amount of durability to the monk, which was sorely needed.
2) Gives them a fun niche as the "1 v 1 tank". You will get monk players who will enjoy that standoff with the one big monster, and soaking round after round of damage.


And I think that's all great. Again this ability gives monks a focused niche, but it doesn't overshadow other fighters in many other common combat scenarios.

Agreed. The more attacks the monk faces, the less this ability helps. But that makes sense - it's harder to dodge when attacks are coming from all directions, whereas armour or barbarian resilience continue to mitigate incoming damage just as effectively as with one attack. The monk shouldn't be the main tank, but giving them the ability to off-tank lets them use that improved mobility to get right in the BBEG's face and not die in two rounds. I love it.

 

[Clint_L]

To be clear. No one is saying to remove it.

Just that the number might be a bit too high. I haven't done the math, so I don't really have an opinion on that yet.

It feels like it will be very strong at low levels, balanced between levels 5-10, and become less and less useful as you level up from there. So I agree there are some potential scaling issues.

I think this new version of the monk will be an absolute beast at low levels.

 

[mellored]

Or maybe a spend a DP to add a Martial Arts Die roll bonus to some skill check.

Sounds reasonable.

At level 2, select one of the following.

Stillness of Body
You train to control every muscle in your body, and are able to stop even your breathing for a moment.
Spend 1 DP to add your martial art to a stealth check until you move. You are unaffected by anything you need to breathe until the end of your next turn.

Tune Senses
You attuned your senses to pick up on the smallest of movements.
Spend 1 DP to add your martial arts die to your perception check.

Center Emotions
You still your mind, making it harder to knock off balance.
Spend 1 DP to add reduce and intimation, diplomacy, or bluff check against you.

 

[Shardstone]

Sounds reasonable.

At level 2, select one of the following.

Stillness of Body
You train to control every muscle in your body, and are able to stop even your breathing for a moment.
Spend 1 DP to add your martial art to a stealth check until you move. You are unaffected by anything you need to breathe until the end of your next turn.

Tune Senses
You attuned your senses to pick up on the smallest of movements.
Spend 1 DP to add your martial arts die to your perception check.

Center Emotions
You still your mind, making it harder to knock off balance.
Spend 1 DP to add reduce and intimation, diplomacy, or bluff check against you.

I loooooove this.