D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Spell Discussion

[Vael]

I like the new cantrip, it's good to see more attack cantrips for the Druid and the Bard.

 

[Yaarel]

You're not gaining any power or wisdom, you're not communing, you're not getting insight, you're not even getting the advantages having a real animal would. You just make a trap square.

The mechanics of this spell work for so many concepts and don't work for the one they gave it to fill in the name slot.

The American Indigenous is more about attuning the spiritual influence of the animal. The Norse is more about the projection of a human ancestor or sometimes of a natural feature manifesting in the form of an animal. Either way, Conjure Animals is a manifestation of outofbody animals, who protect the conjuror and communicate nonverbally enough to move against the specific enemies of the conjuror.

If you want the Conjure Animals spell to additionally grant the conjuror a Speak With Animals effect with ordinary animals of the same type, that can be a cool situational benefit.

In a Norse context, the conjured animals can even be a manifestation of the conjurors own outofbody projection. In this sense, the conjuror is getting the advantage of becoming a real animal.

In any case, you have point. Maybe to heighten the animistic flavor of the spell, the caster should be able to see and hear thru the senses of the conjured animals. This would convey the flavor of either attuning the animals or projecting the animals.

 

[bedir than]

I like the new cantrip, it's good to see more attack cantrips for the Druid and the Bard.

I also like the idea of flinging it out to provide low light at a distance

 

[Yaarel]

I like the new cantrip, it's good to see more attack cantrips for the Druid and the Bard.

Heh, it is even better to see an attack cantrip for the Druid and Bard that is actually a good combat spell!

 

[Yaarel]

I also like the idea of flinging it out to provide low light at a distance

Yeah. As DM I would allow its use for nondamaging utilitarian dim light, even if requiring an Arcana or Nature skill check to do a "spell stunt" to prevent it from dealing damage.

At the same time, the cantrip itself can be written in a way to allow for a dim light source within the spell range.

 

[Maxperson]

The Verbal component can be loud like a scroll chanter for an audience to hear, or quiet as a personal meditation to focus ones thoughts and intentions.

The player decides how loud the V is depending on purpose.

Similarly, the Somatic component can be a spectacular dance or a subtle shift of finger gestures. The player decides.

Players do not get to decide mechanics.

 

[Shardstone]

In English class, my teacher taught me the concept of "dead wood".

If there is a text, and one can remove some of that text, and the text still works fine, then that removable text is "dead wood". For the sake of modern communication, it is important to prune away any dead wood.


Same thing for a movie. If the editor can remove a scene, and the story feels the same, it is better to remove the unnecessary scene, rather than have a movie drag on or confuse.

As an English professor, that advice is useless without context. Not everything needs to be hyper streamlined, including instructions or directions. A little flavor line about throwing a fireball or even a series of symbols to show who can cast a spell is fine and adds to the product.

 

[Yaarel]

Players do not get to decide mechanics.

Sometimes the need to narratively describe something means the player decides.

Here the only mechanic is the letter "V". What that means, and how loud it is, the player decides when describing the actions of the character.

In my head canon, the Verbal component is typically about the volume of someone humming, people alongside verbalizer can hear it clearly, but people in an other room wont.

The volume of V can be loud enough for a large audience to hear, especially during a ceremony while performing a group Ritual.

But it can also be very low volume, expressly for the purpose of focusing ones own personal intention in an urgent situation.

 

[Horwath]

Players do not get to decide mechanics.

and in this case neither does PHB or DMG, so it's about DM's best guess vs. players best guess and that leads to argument which would all be avoided if it simply was written:
I.E: Perception DC for spellcasting is 5. You get -1 penalty for every 10ft that you are away from caster

 

[Maxperson]

Sometimes the need to narratively describe something means the player decides.

Here the only mechanic is the letter "V". What that means, and how loud it is, the player decides when describing the actions of the character.

In my head canon, the Verbal component is typically about the volume of someone humming, people alongside verbalizer can hear it clearly, but people in an other room wont.

The volume of V can be loud enough for a large audience to hear, especially during a ceremony while performing a group Ritual.

But it can also be very low volume, expressly for the purpose of focusing ones own personal intention in an urgent situation.

That is wrong. The mechanic is not V. The V represents the mechanic which is very explicitly chanting or singing.