D&D General Reassesing Robert E Howards influence on D&D +

[Voadam]

I don't think there's even any monsters* that make the jump, beyond the general idea of snake people, but even then, the Yuan-Ti function a lot more like something from the Lovecraftian mythos.

Howard and Lovecraft serpent men were the same shared literary creation.

Howard created them in 1929 for the first Kull the Conqueror story then Lovecraft mentions/uses them in Haunter in the Dark in 1936.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

One of the things that Conan brings, besides a love of women and treasure (in that order), is the historical kitchen sink setting. REH made no effort towards a consistent world and instead threw Conan into all sorts of thinly disguised versions of his favorite historical moments. Off the top of my head I can point at stories that are basically "Conan and the Pirates of the Spanish Main", "Conan, Warlord of the Afghani Hill Tribes", "Conan on the American Frontier", and "Young Conan and the Murder of a Roman Patrician".

Any setting where crossing a border sends you to a different century and genre owes a lot to Conan. Places like Pathfinder's Golarion show this the most strongly of modern settings.

Definitely a good point.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Howard and Lovecraft serpent men were the same shared literary creation.

Howard created them in 1929 for the first Kull the Conqueror story then Lovecraft mentions/uses them in Haunter in the Dark in 1936.

Did Howard's serpent men change shape, or were they permanently snakes with arms? The shapeshifting is what makes me think more of Lovecraft, since Howard's monsters don't feel the need to hide.

 

[cbwjm]

Did Howard's serpent men change shape, or were they permanently snakes with arms? The shapeshifting is what makes me think more of Lovecraft, since Howard's monsters don't feel the need to hide.

Pretty sure they could, but it has been a long while since I read a Conan or Kull story that featured them.

 

[Tonguez]

Did Howard's serpent men change shape, or were they permanently snakes with arms? The shapeshifting is what makes me think more of Lovecraft, since Howard's monsters don't feel the need to hide.

The Serpentmen of Valusia used scorcery to disguise themselves and thus infiltrate human society. However it was revealed to King Kull that they could not say the phrase “Ka Nama Kaa Lajerama“ and would revert to snake form if force to say it.

Lin Carter, Ashton Smith and HPLovecraft later included serpentmen in their own tales as part of the Cthulhu Mythos where the Great Serpent and Stygian Set are associated with the Old One Yig.

Manserpents were an offshoot of Serpentmen who appeared as Serpents with human heads (ie Naga) most notably in Conan story “The God in the bowl”

 

[Voadam]

2e Barbarians were Fighters with restricted weapon proficiency, increase speed, leaping, back protection and Terrain based survival, hide and track. The viking sourcebook introduced the Beserkr fighter who got Beserk (ie Rage), Shapechange (Wolf or Bear) and a Trance/Summon Wolf ability.

1e barbarians were either fantasy vikings, mongols, or amazonian jungle natives, overlayed on a Conan base. 2e started with generic, technologically behind but more nature skill focused barbarians, then later focused in on the vikings with a bit of a berserker mechanical focus and started to run with raging mechanics a bit in late 2e, so that was basically the state when 3e and the raging barbarian was developed.

After the Vikings sourcebook there was the Celts one with a warp frenzy thing for increasing strength and gaining 2 hp per level and one AC while in the frenzy.

2e Complete Dwarf Handbook also had a battlerager kit with similar raging mechanics to the berserker warrior that was basically a WFRP trollslayer with the serial numbers filed off.

 

[Thomas Shey]

but that wasn't flashy. Heck, most of it was off screen. Most of it was hypnotism, control over some pet monster, or I kill you by touching you. In fact, I'd posit that Howard didn't want flashy magic because there's less mystery around magic when it's flashy. And magic in Howard's book was all about being mysterious, feared, in the shadows, and cosmic. Pretty much what 60s/70s sword and sorcery was emulating.

I guess I just can't see summoning otherworldly monsters as "not flashy", off screen or no.

 

[MGibster]

I think there's something we need to keep in mind. A work might be influenced by what came earlier without being a 1:1 copy. You can see Dune, Aliens, Judge Dredd, and maybe even Predator in the DNA of Warhammer 40k, but 40k isn't really like any single one of those. It's the same wiht D&D and Conan. I think you can see the influence even if nothing in D&D is exactly like Conan.

 

[cbwjm]

I guess I just can't see summoning otherworldly monsters as "not flashy", off screen or no.

I often think of things like fireballs, lightning bolts, and magic missiles as flashy magic. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what people think of for flashy magic.

 

[TwiceBorn2]

1e barbarians were either fantasy vikings, mongols, or amazonian jungle natives, overlayed on a Conan base. 2e started with generic, technologically behind but more nature skill focused barbarians, then later focused in on the vikings with a bit of a berserker mechanical focus and started to run with raging mechanics a bit in late 2e, so that was basically the state when 3e and the raging barbarian was developed.

After the Vikings sourcebook there was the Celts one with a warp frenzy thing for increasing strength and gaining 2 hp per level and one AC while in the frenzy.

2e Complete Dwarf Handbook also had a battlerager kit with similar raging mechanics to the berserker warrior that was basically a WFRP trollslayer with the serial numbers filed off.

2e had a full Barbarian class that was released later in its run: https://www.dmsguild.com/product/16902/The-Complete-Barbarians-Handbook?term=complete+barbaria