D&D General Reassesing Robert E Howards influence on D&D +

[Kurotowa]

Comparing them to D&D and saying they have limited impact is almost redundant. I have trouble picturing that not being true about almost any RPG given the dominance of the former.

Even with D&D tipping the top of the scale, there are RPGs that have had impact. Shadowrun, Traveler, Vampire: The Masquerade, Call of Cthulhu... games that have lasted for decades and had a wide influence on the hobby. Even if you want to let D&D monopolize the A Tier and put those on the B Tier, the licensed Conan and LotR RPGs are down in D Tier. Unremarkable and passed with little impact.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Even with D&D tipping the top of the scale, there are RPGs that have had impact. Shadowrun, Traveler, Vampire: The Masquerade, Call of Cthulhu... games that have lasted for decades and had a wide influence on the hobby. Even if you want to let D&D monopolize the A Tier and put those on the B Tier, the licensed Conan and LotR RPGs are down in D Tier. Unremarkable and passed with little impact.

I'd suggest its not a coincidence that none of those were fantasy games (except arguably SR, and its in the urban fantasy genre if you do, which is a very different beast for audience). Even RQ only had so much impact, and it was back when the dominance was weaker.

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

Rage was a 3E addition to the barbarian that turned the class into a DPR berserker. The 1E and 2E versions played very different to the version we have now. Gygax's 1E version played a lot closer to the Conan of the books. The class morphed according to what players wanted from the class and away from its origins. I don't think you could pull it back to the original version without major outcry from the player base these days.

... especially the part where the barbarian doesn't use magic and gets XP by destroying magic items

 

[Vikingkingq]

As I posted upthread:

Ok, I gotcha, but I don't agree with the thing about instinct vs. planning. Conan often succeeds because of his caution and understanding: in "Jewels of Gwahlur," for example, Conan triumphs where his rivals fail because he took his time to understand the secret door and use it to spy on people. Likewise, in "Rogues in the House," Conan uses an improvised weapon to knock out a guard and steal his keys when Murilo doesn't show up to free him. And so forth.

 

[Reynard]

Ok, I gotcha, but I don't agree with the thing about instinct vs. planning. Conan often succeeds because of his caution and understanding: in "Jewels of Gwahlur," for example, Conan triumphs where his rivals fail because he took his time to understand the secret door and use it to spy on people. Likewise, in "Rogues in the House," Conan uses an improvised weapon to knock out a guard and steal his keys when Murilo doesn't show up to free him. And so forth.

We are told time and again by Howard that Conan is, above all things even his physical might, a canny predator.

In that way, Conan reflects the old school "player skill" vibe very well.

 

[Kurotowa]

We are told time and again by Howard that Conan is, above all things even his physical might, a canny predator.

In that way, Conan reflects the old school "player skill" vibe very well.

I would say the theme for Conan is that he acts decisively where other men flinch or hesitate. He has a very practical cunning, and he picks up a broad set of skills, but often times he wins just because he fully commits to a gambit while his opponent is holds back due to fear and uncertainty. Which is what makes him a compelling pulp action hero and a terrible OD&D PC.

The dark dungeon where everything is trying to kill you and even the traps are trapped is not a place where bold barbarian decisiveness will break the will of your foes. Instead, it rewarded heroes who sought to cheat every trial and exploit every advantage, much more in line with the protagonists of later writers like Leiber and Zelazny.

 

[Reynard]

I would say the theme for Conan is that he acts decisively where other men flinch or hesitate. He has a very practical cunning, and he picks up a broad set of skills, but often times he wins just because he fully commits to a gambit while his opponent is holds back due to fear and uncertainty. Which is what makes him a compelling pulp action hero and a terrible OD&D PC.

The dark dungeon where everything is trying to kill you and even the traps are trapped is not a place where bold barbarian decisiveness will break the will of your foes. Instead, it rewarded heroes who sought to cheat every trial and exploit every advantage, much more in line with the protagonists of later writers like Leiber and Zelazny.

Yet every time we see Conan at a disadvantage in a dark dungeon where swords won't avail him, he leans into his strengths -- chiefly, cunning -- and wins the day.

There will never be a 1:1 relationship between literature and gaming, even when discussing specific and intentional adaptations. At the same time,it is blatantly ridiculous for people to propose that Conan doesn't fit the mold of a D&D PC when he was among the most intentionally applicable sort.

 

[Clint_L]

Even with D&D tipping the top of the scale, there are RPGs that have had impact. Shadowrun, Traveler, Vampire: The Masquerade, Call of Cthulhu... games that have lasted for decades and had a wide influence on the hobby. Even if you want to let D&D monopolize the A Tier and put those on the B Tier, the licensed Conan and LotR RPGs are down in D Tier. Unremarkable and passed with little impact.

Conan, sure. But Middle Earth Roleplaying (MERP) was pretty popular in the 80s, and was the gateway drug to Rolemaster for a lot of players.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Folks here focus more on Greyhawk, but I think Robert E. Howard's strongest influence on D&D is the Forgotten Realms setting, most specifically the Unapproachable East, and to a much lesser extent the Old Empires region.

Algarond, Rasheman, Thay, Narfell, very big Conan vibes.

You get some of that as well in Mulhorand, because that was I think Ed's OG vision for it, that got hijacked into more ancient civilization colonies/Mythology when Desert of Desolation got added to FR.

Of course they then tied the History of the two regions heavily together, Robert E. Howard influenced Unapproachable East with the ancient Mythology influenced Old Empire's region.

And of course you have the Ravenloft spin off of Thay, Hazlan giving Ravenloft a taste of its own Stygia.

 

[Kurotowa]

Conan, sure. But Middle Earth Roleplaying (MERP) was pretty popular in the 80s, and was the gateway drug to Rolemaster for a lot of players.

Mostly before my time, but now that you mention that I do remember Middle Earth Roleplaying being name dropped in various places. I was thinking more of the attempts around when the movies came out. I stand somewhat corrected, though I still wouldn't put it above C Tier in the model I'm using here.