WotC Shannon Appelcline the layoffs and the OGL fiasco.

[Blue Orange]

How much would you need to raise to buy WotC back from Hasbro? Could it be crowdsourced? Many older geeks are reaching middle age and peak earning power.

 

[Scribe]

How much would you need to raise to buy WotC back from Hasbro? Could it be crowdsourced? Many older geeks are reaching middle age and peak earning power.

Other thread had that around 3 billion.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yeah, I read it. I don't buy it. At all.

The OGL was created before Hasbro. The train was already out of the station. After the OGL, Hasbro's first two moves were to introduce 3.5e very quickly, and then to move to 4e without an OGL. In other words, when Hasbro started paying attention, they tried to ditch the OGL within the first seven years.

5e came around, but it was considered a "last gasp" with a skeleton crew. It's not like Hasbro was paying that much attention.

When Hasbro started paying attention again, they stated cooking up a way to get rid of the OGL, again. This wasn't from a lack of institutional knowledge, at all. Like I said, I don't buy the thesis. There were people in WoTC that knew that people would react badly- but Hasbro wanted to monetize it further. They decided that the blowback would be worth it. They decided wrong.

TLDR; every time Hasbro has turned Sauron's eye to D&D, they have tried to monetize it and get rid of the OGL. The thesis is not a good one. Because it doesn't pay any attention to what actually happened.

To be fair the premise is more that the institutional knowledge wasn’t in enough authoritative voices.

But I’m with you. I don’t think the layoffs were the driving factor there, the driving factor was that the authority structure changed, not that those with previous institutional knowledge left/were let go, but that hasbro diminished their authority on these matters.

Maybe there was a lack of institutional knowledge on the hasbro instead of Wotc side, new execs not really understanding the 4e OGL issues, but that’s not really been examined.

I mean it wasn’t long ago we hear about different factions within the company regarding the 5e OGL fiasco.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

How much would you need to raise to buy WotC back from Hasbro? Could it be crowdsourced? Many older geeks are reaching middle age and peak earning power.

Well, you'd need to be able to buy all of Hasbro in order to ensure it. You can always offer to buy parts of a company, and they can say no. The only way to ensure that get what you want is to take over the whole thing.

So look at the value of Hasbro, and then figure an acquisition premium. Hard to say what the exact amount would be, but 30% is a good rule of thumb (could be less or more, depending on all sorts of facts related to the buyers and the target and the deal).

 

[DarkCrisis]

I'm friends with a lot of people who worked for WotC and were let go. For the overwhelming number of them, "other things" means getting a job outside the industry like the rest of us, while working on rpg stuff as a hobby or secondary income (like me and many others who never worked for WotC or "made it big"). Only a rare few have been able to make a decent living doing solely rpg stuff after leaving WotC.

I know a girl who won a "create an RPG adventure contest" and got to make one for Pathfinder. She's still freelance after like 5+ years and has contributed to a few books here and there (magic items, monsters, etc). She'd love an actual job in the industry but it's never materialized.

 

[Mark Craddock]

Yeah, I read it. I don't buy it. At all.

The OGL was created before Hasbro. The train was already out of the station. After the OGL, Hasbro's first two moves were to introduce 3.5e very quickly, and then to move to 4e without an OGL. In other words, when Hasbro started paying attention, they tried to ditch the OGL within the first seven years.

Hasbro bought WotC in 1999. DnD 3E & the OGL launched in 2000.

I agree though, this is just another round of Hasbro/WotC Layoffs and it just feels worse because of everything Hasbro has been doing this past year with WotC.

However, as someone who runs 2 comic & game stores and is an action figure fan Hasbro's future concerns me. They are trying to leverage their toy sales on adults who are 30 and over (I'm 51) and there is no future in that. I believe the head of WotC is used to work for Microsoft and has gone on record wanting DnD & M:tG to be "lifestyle brands" which means they want coffee makers, underwear, and hot pocket money more than the what the games bring in.

What I find even more concerning is how many publisher, manufacturers, and fellow retailers thought that 2020 & 2021's spike in sales was the "new normal" and not merely an aberration because people in the U.S. had time and money to spare. The same Corporations that want to bleed everything dry also liked it when the 99% had some extra change. That has to be some cognitive dissonance for them.

Sadly, we basically shut down the global economy and then restarted it and we are all in unfamiliar territory now economically. Pile that on top of the darkest timeline and we are living in interesting times.

 

[Mark Craddock]

How much would you need to raise to buy WotC back from Hasbro? Could it be crowdsourced? Many older geeks are reaching middle age and peak earning power.

There was a fight within the board late last year or early this year where an "activist group" tried to force WotC to spin off from Hasbro but it died. I love DnD but if we could raise the billions needed to buy WotC we'd be better paying off providing human rights to people who need it.

My advice: Support an RPG company you like. I've stopped buying Hasbro products even though I love their stuff and deeply respect the people who actually create it. I'm choosing to support Savage Worlds, Shadowdark, and Kobold's Tales of the Valiant. I'm keeping an eye on Mythras, & the developments of the Matt Collville RPG, and the Critical Role RPG.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Hasbro bought WotC in 1999. DnD 3E & the OGL launched in 2000.

Notice my phrasing. The OGL was the brainchild of Ryan Dancey. It, and 3e, were already developed by WoTC prior and during the Hasbro takeover. In fact, for the first couple of years after the Hasbro takeover, they were still sorting through what they had.

Hasbro didn't really get involved in the day-to-day at WoTC until after Adkinson left (2001), and by 2003 we already saw 3.5e released to try and claw back a little of the OGL. 4e was in development by 2005, with the idea that it would not employ the OGL.

 

[Mark Craddock]

Notice my phrasing. The OGL was the brainchild of Ryan Dancey. It, and 3e, were already developed by WoTC prior and during the Hasbro takeover. In fact, for the first couple of years after the Hasbro takeover, they were still sorting through what they had.

Hasbro didn't really get involved in the day-to-day at WoTC until after Adkinson left (2001), and by 2003 we already saw 3.5e released to try and claw back a little of the OGL. 4e was in development by 2005, with the idea that it would not employ the OGL.

I'm not sure I give credit to Hasbro for 3.5 though. Monte Cook has said that as soon as 3E was out the door they started working on it. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Lanefan]

I'm not sure I give credit to Hasbro for 3.5 though. Monte Cook has said that as soon as 3E was out the door they started working on it. Just my 2 cents.

Perhaps, but without Hasbro's influence what would have been the timeline on 3.5 hitting the streets? My very uneducated guess would say at least a year or two later than what actually transpired.