D&D General Does D&D (and RPGs in general) Need Edition Resets?

[payn]

I like edition resets. I think every generation of players (and designers) should be able to change the games to fit their tastes and popular zeitgeists.
For example, even if it was somewhat maligned, I think 4E was an important step in the hobby industry. It took a lot of the design and what was popular circa 2005 and tried to put it in D&D.
Conversely, I think the mild edition refreshers (like we're getting with 2024 D&D) isn't as good. It's like when video gamers got the PS4 Pro. It's not a new generation, it doesn't reinvigorate the design space. It's like releasing Monopoly with the thimble replaced with an iPhone.
If we truly want our hobby to die, it's with "evergreen" editions. The design space risks becoming stagnant.
I sense that some will counter with games that have remained very similar, such as the editions of Call of Cthulhu. I like CoC (for short adventures and one-shots, mostly - though I did run a lengthy Masks of Nyarlahotep campaign). It's a very specific game meant to evoke a particular play pattern that hasn't adapted since the 1980s.
If the core D&D experience hadn't changed since the 1980s, we'd all be playing OSR (which is fine, but hardly enough to sustain the industry and playbase of D&D).
Not only has D&D changed since the 1980s, I'd argue it's changed since 2014. In 2014, the design of D&D was to bring back lapsed fans and old-timers (like me). 2024 should be thinking about the fans D&D gained from 2014-2024 and the direction the hobby is going for the next 5-8 years.
What should it look like? (Well, these points are from me, a random middle-aged dude on the Internet who is only a part-time designer. This is based only on what I'm gathering running for teenagers.)

• Gamify background and story - make it more significant to the game
• Speed up advancement to run a full 1-20 level campaign in 9-12 months
• Make classes better able to operate outside their structure (for example, allow *good healing outside of clerics/druids - because every party configuration should be able to accommodate the unique play desires of the group)
• Give good rules for travel and other montage-based encounters (to allow groups to get to the "big scenes" of action and roleplay)

So my prediction of 2024 D&D is that it won't seem "new enough." Newer fans will lose interest and D&D will be considered a "fad." This is what happened with TSR D&D through the 1990s, when it was basically stagnant from 1974-1999. People turned to White Wolf and TSR got bought out by WotC. I can see history repeating itself if we don't have innovation...
(Perhaps that innovation comes with the VTT, online play, etc. That's a possibility. However, for me, I'd rather have a new and improved system with bold, new directions. I already have the 2014 books - I don't need them again with a fresh coat of paint.)

I think this assumes that D&D is the be all and end all of the hobby. Its still the undisputed king, but design is no longer resting solely on its shoulders. I think we are moving into a time where D&D is going to be the old familiar and less radical TTRPG. Innovation in design will be the realm of the indie. The market at this point exists just like this.

I think the thing folks continue to miss is 5E 2024 is the digital space move for D&D. This is what WotC wanted to do back in 2008 but fumbled the ball. 5E was a get right with the community plan. Now we are in phase two, get the community digital. We are not getting a radical design because they need a solid digital platform first.

 

[mamba]

I'm not disagreeing with the amount of crunch.

I'm disagreeing on whether it's a viable business plan.

A business plan that doesn't have 10 years of product and 10 years of sales is canceled by WOTC or TSR.

I am not sure why you equate crunch and material or sales. If whoever publishes three books of crunch in ten years, they match 5e. There is no need for several books of crunch every year, I’d even argue they would be detrimental

 

[Minigiant]

I am not sure why you equate crunch and material or sales. If whoever publishes three books of crunch in ten years, they match 5e. There is no need for several books of crunch every year, I’d even argue they would be detrimental

I'm saying you need a business plan to sell 3 books for 10 years.

However the frequent supporters of incremental RPG design keep proposing narrow concepts for those 3 books that won't sell for 10 years

 

[Retreater]

I think this assumes that D&D is the be all and end all of the hobby. Its still the undisputed king, but design is no longer resting solely on its shoulders. I think we are moving into a time where D&D is going to be the old familiar and less radical TTRPG. Innovation in design will be the realm of the indie. The market at this point exists just like this.

Even the old guard needs to adapt. Dylan eventually played an electric guitar, after all.
The Indie RPG space is the testing ground for new ideas. D&D would be wise to take what works and adapt it to its style.

 

[payn]

Even the old guard needs to adapt. Dylan eventually played an electric guitar, after all.
The Indie RPG space is the testing ground for new ideas. D&D would be wise to take what works and adapt it to its style.

And I think it will. Though, the electric in this case is going digital. Lots of folk aint going to like it either anymore than Pete Seger did.

 

[mamba]

I'm saying you need a business plan to sell 3 books for 10 years.

sure, you should have a plan. For starters have the base races, classes and subclasses in the first PHB(s), probably modeled after 5e or the revised PF2 (with 2 player core books)

Then add races / classes / subclasses every two to three years to broaden the base. When you have done that two or three times, you probably have everything you will ever need, more becomes detrimental.

At that point the only thing you can still do is revisions, much like 5e 2024 does

You can tweak this a little, it’s not like I thought about this extensively, but that would be my starting point

However the frequent supporters of incremental RPG design keep proposing narrow concepts for those 3 books that won't sell for 10 years

like start with four races and classes, then add more two years later and feats two years after that?

I assume this is more a description of what would have happened if TSR had gone down that route than a plan for today.

I agree that you should have a solid foundation from the start and then just build on it, rather than introduce feats, skills, battle maneuvers etc. down the line. You can add to them as you add races / classes / subclasses, but the systems should be in place from the start

 

[nevin]

sure, you should have a plan. For starters have the base races, classes and subclasses in the first PHB(s), probably modeled after 5e or the revised PF2 (with 2 player core books)

Then add races / classes / subclasses every two to three years to broaden the base. When you have done that two or three times, you probably have everything you will ever need, more becomes detrimental.

At that point the only thing you can still do is revisions, much like 5e 2024 does

You can tweak this a little, it’s not like I thought about this extensively, but that would be my starting point


like start with four races and classes, then add more two years later and feats two years after that?

I assume this is more a description of what would have happened if TSR had gone down that route than a plan for today.

I agree that you should have a solid foundation from the start and then just build on it, rather than introduce feats, skills, battle maneuvers etc. down the line. You can add to them as you add races / classes / subclasses, but the systems should be in place from the start

so 3rd edition. never ending supply of splat books.

 

[mamba]

Even the old guard needs to adapt. Dylan eventually played an electric guitar, after all.
The Indie RPG space is the testing ground for new ideas. D&D would be wise to take what works and adapt it to its style.

it has been this way for a while now, D&d isn’t a laboratory for new ideas. The one time WotC arguably tried that failed miserably

That is why we have playtests now, and the 2024 one has shown that there is not much interest in innovation. Maybe there isn’t all that much to take from indie RPGs after all, or the time is not right yet. Pretty sure we will see another iteration some years down the line again, we’ll see what the votes say then

 

[mamba]

so 3rd edition. never ending supply of splat books.

no, absolutely not, that is the worst situation imo. Not sure how you can turn ‘2 to 3 Xanathars’ into ‘neverending 3e splatbooks’

 

[nevin]

the bigger the company the less likely any innovation will come. Bigger almost always means slow steady incremental change.