I want my actions to matter

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Well, it's no "act", it's just true.

Well, there you go. Not sure how to respond to that.

Well, this is good advice for dealing with average or good people that act in good faith. Though it's useless for bad or worse people.

If that's what you genuinely think about the folks you play with, have at 'er. Peace out.

 

[Lanefan]

The skill does exist. It is just bundled into jumping, swimming, etc. An expert climber in 5e is also an expert jumper and swimmer.

Sure, but there's a very good argument for splitting those things out - swimming is a completely different skill than climbing, for example.

 

[Lanefan]

because you do not want a group to suck at 80% of stuff,

Why not? Some groups are going to suck at 80% of stuff, fact of life. So be it. Let 'em suck.

 

[Lanefan]

I mean… it’s a game.

Yes, a game that some of us use to try to simulate a fictional reality as best we can.

 

[Maxperson]

Sure, but there's a very good argument for splitting those things out - swimming is a completely different skill than climbing, for example.

Yep. Hence my complaint that they over simplified the skills.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Well, this is good advice for dealing with average or good people that act in good faith. Though it's useless for bad or worse people.

...then...don't participate in hobbies with people you consider bad. literally, it's that easy. just...find better people to play with, or do something else with your life.

the way you detailed your players earlier made it sound like you really disliked them. you don't have to play with them. the fact that you still are despite clearly disliking them is baffling to me.

 

[pemerton]

swimming is a completely different skill than climbing, for example.

Is this true? I mean, I recently discovered that cycling, at least if it involves some climbing, can keep me in reasonable shape for running. So after not having run for about a year, maybe more, I was able to do three runs over a month (11 km, 14 km, 16 km) to prep for a successful 22 km run.

Yet in D&D running would normally be CON, and cycling DEX. And DEX covers everything from balance to deftness to reflexes to speed. So great jugglers are also great high jumpers.

The Athletics skill in 4e and 5e hardly seems like some weird outlier or proud nail in this respect. Especially as, it seems to me, someone who has the strength and endurance for climbing is likely to at least be a passable swimmer.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Is this true? I mean, I recently discovered that cycling, at least if it involves some climbing, can keep me in reasonable shape for running. So after not having run for about a year, maybe more, I was able to do three runs over a month (11 km, 14 km, 16 km) to prep for a successful 22 km run.

Yet in D&D running would normally be CON, and cycling DEX. And DEX covers everything from balance to deftness to reflexes to speed. So great jugglers are also great high jumpers.

The Athletics skill in 4e and 5e hardly seems like some weird outlier or proud nail in this respect. Especially as, it seems to me, someone who has the strength and endurance for climbing is likely to at least be a passable swimmer.

I think it is true actually. Being in "reasonable shape" for something is not the same as being "even competent at something, let alone high-performing".

Back in the day, I was into cycling to the point where I was somewhat "above the herd". Then I got into running to the point where I was performing at what might be considered a reasonably high level.

And yet, I can't swim. Never learned as a kid. Took adult lessons, but clearly that doesn't replace the time and energy a kid can spend on this activity, because I am barely competent.

I would say that the CON developed from my cycling and running helps my swimming but only to the point where I don't drown in a pool because I have to cheat and hold my breath whilst front crawling through a lap. It makes me better at swimming than I should be, but nowhere near basic competence.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Sure, but there's a very good argument for splitting those things out - swimming is a completely different skill than climbing, for example.

If this was a game about athletes competing in different sports, then sure. But it is not. And athletic prowess generally is somewhat bundled together, these are not completely unrelated things. I know, I suck in all of it.

Also, in a game the skills should be actually even somewhat equally useful. During the 31 sessions of my current campaign the ability to swim has come up exactly zero times. Ability to climb has come up several times, as has ability to jump, and then there have been numerous athletic feats that do not neatly fit to a subcategory. But climbing alone as a standalone skill would still have been a really bad choice of skill in this campaing (though better than swimming) as compared to other skills it would come up so rarely.

So I am pretty fine in game of adventurers that routinely face wide variety of challenges (unlike professional athletes who can concentrate on training their chosen speciality) having rather broad skills that bundle related things together.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

If this was a game about athletes competing in different sports, then sure. But it is not. And athletic prowess generally is somewhat bundled together, these are not completely unrelated things. I know, I suck in all of it.

Also, in a game the skills should be actually even somewhat equally useful. During the 31 sessions of my current campaign the ability to swim has come up exactly zero times. Ability to climb has come up several times, as has ability to jump, and then there have been numerous athletic feats that do not neatly fit to a subcategory. But climbing alone as a standalone skill would still have been a really bad choice of skill in this campaing (though better than swimming) as compared to other skills it would come up so rarely.

So I am pretty fine in game of adventurers that routinely face wide variety of challenges (unlike professional athletes who can concentrate on training their chosen speciality) having rather broad skills that bundle related things together.

I'm fine with this clumping of skills too frankly. I get those who see this as hurting the verisimilitude though. But to me, this is a level of detail that just slows down the game and sucks out the fun... not worth it.