D&D General Styles of D&D Play

[Minigiant]

An erupting volcano on a smallish desert island is a fine mid level survival hazard. At high level it will likely involve trying to survive on some other plane.

I also don't see why a style has to be present from level 1-20. It's perfectly fine to start of surviving on the island up to level 8 or 9, then transition off the island as you figure out a way off and encounter a much larger island with inhabitants and transition from survival to political. The game has also been character driven from level 1 and I've tossed in a small amount of slapstick just because.

Water Walk to the shore
Water breathing and swim off the island
Summon giant birds and fly away.

If Survival stops working at level 5, then Survival isn't supported past level 5.

Can you explain why this matters? I mean, even not knowing why it matters, illusion is easy. The nobleman touches or examines it and either automatically knows it's an illusion or makes the save and sees through it, or both!

Consent.

 

[Hussar]

Yeah I'm not sure where this idea that D&D nullifies survival challenges comes from. The challenges just need to scale like most things in the game. For a good example of this check out the Conan Exiles videogame.

In other words, the style needs to adapt to the game. Because the players gain certain options, certain styles stop being possible. Even something like food and water realistically stops being an issue for 1st level characters - Create Water and GoodBerry are both available at 1st level.

But, sure, if we define "supporting a style" as "We alter our style to adapt to the game" then, this does explain why people are so adamant that D&D supports these various styles of games. The reason we disagree isn't because of the system, but, because we define "support a style" very differently.

Basic/Expert D&D supports survival games very, very well. Most of the options available in other versions of D&D simply don't exist. There is no GoodBerry spell, nor are there druids. Clerics don't even get spells until 2nd level, and, while Purify Food and Drink is available, there is no Create Water. I don't have the books in front of me, but, I'm not entirely sure Create Food and Water is a spell in Moldvay Basic/Expert. Thus, something like Isle of Dread becomes a LOT more of a survival adventure under these rules.

5e makes this style very difficult to run simply because there are SO MANY casters in the group. It's not unusual to have three or four casters (either full or half) in a given group. Meaning that the group simply has so many resources that survival is largely not even an issue.

 

[Imaro]

In other words, the style needs to adapt to the game. Because the players gain certain options, certain styles stop being possible. Even something like food and water realistically stops being an issue for 1st level characters - Create Water and GoodBerry are both available at 1st level.

But, sure, if we define "supporting a style" as "We alter our style to adapt to the game" then, this does explain why people are so adamant that D&D supports these various styles of games. The reason we disagree isn't because of the system, but, because we define "support a style" very differently.

Basic/Expert D&D supports survival games very, very well. Most of the options available in other versions of D&D simply don't exist. There is no GoodBerry spell, nor are there druids. Clerics don't even get spells until 2nd level, and, while Purify Food and Drink is available, there is no Create Water. I don't have the books in front of me, but, I'm not entirely sure Create Food and Water is a spell in Moldvay Basic/Expert. Thus, something like Isle of Dread becomes a LOT more of a survival adventure under these rules.

5e makes this style very difficult to run simply because there are SO MANY casters in the group. It's not unusual to have three or four casters (either full or half) in a given group. Meaning that the group simply has so many resources that survival is largely not even an issue.

No take a minute and actually read what others are posting. You seem obsessed with food and water as the totality of survival and its not...
Edit: If the totality of the survival genre for you is food and water that's a lack of imagination not an inability of the game to handle it.

 

[Maxperson]

Water Walk to the shore

Good luck with that. Do you have any idea how long it takes to walk hundreds of miles? You'll be swimming hours from shore long before you get anywhere useful. Good way to die.

Water breathing and swim off the island

Good luck with that. Besides, two problems with that. One, now you have to survive the ocean at relatively low level. Good way to die. Second, where did you get the reed or piece of straw? A spell component pouch assumes that you are filling it with stuff as you adventure. You still have to be somewhere that has it in order for it to be there. A pouch you buy doesn't come immediately with the component for every spell ever invented, or even the PHB spells.

Summon giant birds and fly away.

Oh goodie!!!! Now I get to inflict falling damage before you drown or the ocean hazards claim you!

If Survival stops working at level 5, then Survival isn't supported past level 5.

It doesn't. You've just provided three methods of death for the party, though the ocean walk with water breathing at least has a small chance of success. You might get lucky and avoid all the big monsters that will destroy a level 5 group.

Consent.

I don't even know what this means in the context of what you said about the nobleman.

 

[Maxperson]

In other words, the style needs to adapt to the game. Because the players gain certain options, certain styles stop being possible. Even something like food and water realistically stops being an issue for 1st level characters - Create Water and GoodBerry are both available at 1st level.

You're still conflating scenario with style. The scenario might need to adapt if there happens to be a druid in the party. The style doesn't adapt at all.

 

[Maxperson]

Freeform Roleplay is essentially Method Acting. And everyone ain't good at that.

This is actually very wrong. Method acting is simply one form of acting. Any form of acting at all or even no acting can be freeform roleplay. I can simply say, "My character grog goes up to the sylph and asks her to dance." No acting involved there at all, but entirely freeform roleplay as not one rule or mechanic was involved.

 

[Minigiant]

Good luck with that. Do you have any idea how long it takes to walk hundreds of miles? You'll be swimming hours from shore long before you get anywhere useful. Good way to die.

Water Walk is a ritual. You can spam it.
I'm sayin Water Walk to the shore of the island then swim or fly off.

Good luck with that. Besides, two problems with that. One, now you have to survive the ocean at relatively low level. Good way to die. Second, where did you get the reed or piece of straw? A spell component pouch assumes that you are filling it with stuff as you adventure. You still have to be somewhere that has it in order for it to be there. A pouch you buy doesn't come immediately with the component for every spell ever invented, or even the PHB spells.

If you have a pouch and the spell prepped, it is likely you put a reed or straw in your pouch.
So you'd have to be deprived.
Shark turn it to a Hack and Slash.
But the point of Survival game is to defeat the challenges with found materials and wits.

You can't outwit a volcano. You can either cast magic to escape or run.
That's the point. Past low level, core modern D&D only offers soaking damage.

 

[Hussar]

No take a minute and actually read what others are posting. You seem obsessed with food and water as the totality of survival and its not...
Edit: If the totality of the survival genre for you is food and water that's a lack of imagination not an inability of the game to handle it.

Except that the other points have already been answered. Need somewhere to sleep? Leomund's Hut - now you don't have to worry about inclement weather. Hell, you don't even have to worry about that volcano either, so long as the Hut lasts anyway. Flight, Water Breathing, Teleport, summoning. Remove diseases and poisons. Food and water are trivial.

So, what's left?

 

[Hussar]

Second, where did you get the reed or piece of straw?

Note, a spell focus replaces the need for this. Again, another area where survival becomes less of an issue.

 

[Hussar]

You're still conflating scenario with style. The scenario might need to adapt if there happens to be a druid in the party. The style doesn't adapt at all.

This is word salad. It makes no sense. The scenario needs to be in a particular style if that game is meant to support that particular style. If I need to alter the scenario then that game doesn't support that style. How can a scenario be part of a style but needs to be adapted because of the game, but, the style doesn't need to be adapted?