D&D General Styles of D&D Play

[Minigiant]

I really don't get this obsession with food as central to survival gameplay...

It's not. It's just the easiest to explain. But

Heat Source- Create Bonfire and most fire spells.
Water- Creater Water
Wild animals- Animal friendship
Jumping- Jump
Swimming- Water Breathing/walk
Purification - Purify Food and drink

Etc etc

People forget. D&D's magic system was designed around players having spells that get around The DMs gotcha obstacles.

I'm going to take away your X. Gotcha!
Don't worry I cast create X.

This is antithetical to survival gameplay

 

[Clint_L]

You can roleplay and add other descriptive elements during combat but the resolution of the combat is basically unaffected by the roleplay. A PCs personality can affect it to a certain degree, but it's minimal. Same with 4E skill challenges.

I disagree. In my home game, players will often do non-optimal things in combat because it fits their character. For example, one player had her character cut and run when they were attacked by a giant spider. She'd already established that her character was horribly arachnophobic, rolled and failed a self-imposed fear check, and described her character panicking and running for it.

I love that stuff.

 

[Pedantic]

I'm going to take away your X. Gotcha!
Don't worry I cast create X.

This is antithetical to survival gameplay

Yes, but...that's only true in a version of the game with pretty free spell choice and neo-vancian spell preparation, or something like the 3.x scroll access. You can envision a version of the game (and arguably to some extent such a version existed in previous editions) where you could both have Endure Elements, and still potential suffer from a storm, from not choosing it or not preparing it in favor of a different situation.

 

[Older Beholder]

This might be a good time to note that the original post doesn’t mention ‘survival‘ or 5E

 

[Older Beholder]

To me, using magic to solve a problem is still a form of problem solving.

 

[GrimCo]

In any edition prior to 4e, if you played as wizard/sorcerer and started at level 1, it was always partially survival game. Every combat was life and death struggle for survival since even the basic goblin could one shot you. So you grind and fight and try to survive for those first few levels until you get those sweet sweet spells.

On the more serious note, for some reason most people here equate survival campaign with basic wilderness survival. It can be that. But survival is much broader style of game in which basic wilderness survival is only one part. Other part could be evading things that see you as lunch. Or tribe of local humanoids who want to capture/kill you.

For me personally, survival campaign was more like SERE school.
Survive - basics, food, water, shelter
Evade - local fauna that sees you like food
Resist - if you run into hostile local population
Escape- if you run into something that is obviously stronger or if locals capture you as their slaves/sacrifice/food source

And yes, magic can do lots of things. But slots are limited. Choice of prepared spells is limited. Magic is finite resource, specially in Tier 1 and for half casters. It's kind of thematically appropriate. Do you cast spell for auto sucess but risk it if you need it later or you gamble and try use skills while saving magic? How is that not in tune with survival theme.

 

[Neonchameleon]

It is useful because some of the arguments here share a core premise with his. Which is that even though D&D literally created roleplaying, it somehow falls short in the roleplaying department.

The Wright Flyer literally created powered flight. But compared to modern planes that certainly falls short in the powered flight department.

Being more serious I'd say that post-Gygaxian D&D falls short even of Gygaxian D&D with the XP for GP rules in the roleplaying department.

I think that is because there is a flaw in the reasoning: it assumed you need active mechanical buttressing to encourage role-play,

I would say there's a flaw in your reasoning. Mechanical buttressing done well can help. (Done badly it can be worse than not having any). It's not necessary - but that doesn't make it useless.

whereas I think D&D works as a roleplaying game becuase it leaves the space for it that I have been talking about. I think if you have a game that literally defined what RPGs are, that invented the hobby, there is something wrong in any reasoning that points to it failing at the thing it introduced to the world

Which is why we still compute on Babbage-designed Difference Engines and they don't fall short of modern computers. I think that if you have the first example of something and sixty years later that is as good as it gets in just about any aspect then there is something deeply wrong going on.

 

[CreamCloud0]

To me, using magic to solve a problem is still a form of problem solving.

I don’t think that’s really what’s being debated, so much as the nuance of the differences between magic that allows you to more successfully engage with the mechanics of a playstyle vs magic that allows you to sidestep engaging with it at all?

 

[Hussar]

Yea. I think a large part of it is the lack of specifics - especially the ‘of what’ and ‘for who’ questions.

A example: The lack of vehicle transportation supported his health as he was forced to walk most everywhere, keeping him in good physical shape.

Except that this is a choice. Vehicles exist. Thus he could choose to be able to travel further and faster if he wished.

Your analogy only works if all vehicles no longer exist.

Everyone is being supported because there are no longer any cars or vehicles of any sort is a much tougher row to hoe.

 

[Minigiant]

This might be a good time to note that the original post doesn’t mention ‘survival‘ or 5E

there's a reason for that