D&D General Why Isn't There a D&D Table Top Miniatures War Game?

[Parmandur]

eh, GW is very predatory - yes, I'd love for them to go away.

But there are many other companies besides GW who produce plenty of tabletop wargames or just the minis themselves. Just like there are plenty of other companies that produce RPGs besides D&D. 3D printing in of itself isn't stealing from a company, it's a choice to use something else that's cheaper or in a style you prefer. It is not "killing off tabletop gaming", its stopping consumers from being beholden to one company or another for their needs.

Using paper markers or chips has also always been a viable option: nobody owes GW their business

 

[MGibster]

Using paper markers or chips has also always been a viable option: nobody owes GW their business

There's a dedicated group of gamers who use weird proxies made out of paper or other inexpensive items and they refer to it as Poorhammer. I didn't really want this thread to turn into one where we bash Games Workshop. They make some incredibly good models, but a lot of criticism is certainly warranted. As a customer, I feel as though they don't respect me and sometimes I get a little tired of that.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Loved Chainmail and the D&D mini war game. Good stuff.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Eh, that stuff is way

People buy 3D home printers, download illegal STL files and print as many copies of the models they want.

Overpriced anyway. No one doing that is likely to buy the minis legit if they had to.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't understand what you are saying.

We are talking about wargames. If you copy models from 40K, Battletech it is illegal. Even if you do not make money from it. They are trademarks and IP restrictions.

Seems pretty victimless, since the manufacturer is unlikely to get your money anyway, and you're not making a profit yourself.

 

[Stormonu]

There's a dedicated group of gamers who use weird proxies made out of paper or other inexpensive items and they refer to it as Poorhammer. I didn't really want this thread to turn into one where we bash Games Workshop. They make some incredibly good models, but a lot of criticism is certainly warranted. As a customer, I feel as though they don't respect me and sometimes I get a little tired of that.

I've run across some paper proxies that had me fooled until I picked them up (with permission, of course), and done some of my own paper/poorhammer - though not nearly of such great quality. I also remember my first Battletech boxed set came with standees instead of plastic mechs - wasn't too thrilled about that as I've always loved the tactile of 3D models, but they were serviceable until I could amass my own mini collection for that game.

Somehow, though, the chits that came with Battlesystem offended me. Why couldn't they include whole/starter model armies like the GW starter sets did? (I kinda think they expected you'd already have a collection of metal minis, looking back). I, myself, couldn't stand playing with those chits.

It does remind me that 5E has "mob" rules in the DMG, which I did use for the final big battle in our Ghosts of Saltmarsh game - though I had to use a spreadsheet to track the forces. I would really like a good 5E mass battle system that's fairly quick, easy to use and you can plug in just about any monster. However, I've found my enthusiasm to play out a mass battle doesn't carry over to the other players and my group, and some sort of semi-narrative system would probably fit the bill there, something perhaps more akin to the BECMI war engine or the L5R narrative mass combat system (not Clan War) put into 5E terms would work in those occassions.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Wrong analogy. Think of it as reproducing music or a movie without permission, and paying who owns it. It's a crime.

If you copy a GW space marines that constitutes IP theft. If you create a derivative space-marine-looking model without any of the copyrighted faction logos, then you are fine.

Why? Philosophical question.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This confirms what I wrote at the beginning. If people are printing their own STL versions of GW models, and stealing the book with illegal PDFs, GW will make no money. How are they supposed to survive?

Is GW on the verge of bankruptcy? First I've heard of it. Maybe they should reduce their insane profit margins so that more people buy their stuff, if that's the case.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Oh yeah, I still have and use the Chainmail minis. Like all the Drow. Salamander. Otyug. Etc etc

 

[Stormonu]

Oh yeah, I still have and use the Chainmail minis. Like all the Drow. Salamander. Otyug. Etc etc

I picked up the game and whole bunch of the minis just as the game was ending. There were some good quality minis in that range, and several got turned into plastic prepaints (such as the abyssal maw).

As I recall, the DND mini game was pretty similar (hp/5 and other abbreviated stats), but didn't use the limited activation of Chainmail (which seemed to be derived from Mageknight). Can't remember how much of a gap was between the end of Chainmail and the start of the DND minis but I always felt that if the Chainmail game used (quality) plastic figures, it wouldn't have been put to pasture.