D&D General Why Isn't There a D&D Table Top Miniatures War Game?

Parmandur

Book-Friend
There's a dedicated group of gamers who use weird proxies made out of paper or other inexpensive items and they refer to it as Poorhammer. I didn't really want this thread to turn into one where we bash Games Workshop. They make some incredibly good models, but a lot of criticism is certainly warranted. As a customer, I feel as though they don't respect me and sometimes I get a little tired of that.
Oh, I have nothing against GW, no real personal experience. But their minis have always been a luxury item and people atill love painting beaitiful minis, I'm sure they can compete with 3D printing...though heck, Mayne eventually selling files for 3D printing might be their market, who knows.
 

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MGibster

Legend
I've run across some paper proxies that had me fooled until I picked them up (with permission, of course), and done some of my own paper/poorhammer - though not nearly of such great quality. I also remember my first Battletech boxed set came with standees instead of plastic mechs - wasn't too thrilled about that as I've always loved the tactile of 3D models, but they were serviceable until I could amass my own mini collection for that game.
FASA, and now Catalyst Game Labs, have always been totally fine with players using proxies and certainly didn't expect everyone to use the correct miniature or miniatures at all. The big difference is that FASA/Catalyst games were in the business of making games where as GW is in the business of making miniatures.

As I recall, the DND mini game was pretty similar (hp/5 and other abbreviated stats), but didn't use the limited activation of Chainmail (which seemed to be derived from Mageknight).
The last version of Chainmail was released in 2001 and ceased production in 2003 with D&D Miniatures being introduced that same year.
 

MGibster

Legend
Oh, I have nothing against GW, no real personal experience. But their minis have always been a luxury item and people atill love painting beaitiful minis, I'm sure they can compete with 3D printing...though heck, Mayne eventually selling files for 3D printing might be their market, who knows.
I don't have a 3D printer because it's a whole different hobby on its own. i.e. Until 3D printing is as easy as editing and printing a document at home, I'm not interested. I can't help but noticed 3D printers have improved in both quality and ease of use over the last few years in addition to becoming more affordable. I do think there's going to come a tipping point and GW's current lines of business will not be able to generate revnue as they have in the past. i.e. It's going to get too expensive. Though I realize people have been saying this for years.
 

teitan

Legend
Yeah, the owners of D&D have tried many times over the years to do a tabletop battle game, but it's always been a secondary concern suborned by the RPG and flawed in some way or another. That GW, who started off making D&D miniatures, has a chokehold on fantasy tabletop battles doesn't help.

Battlesystem - came with paper counters (or later, just a book), very limited range of minis (meanwhile, WHFB was well established)
A friend of mine has the vast majority of the Ral Partha Battlesystem minis and I would say it was rather robustly supported. It was also before WFB became a huge battle game and was still in it's first edition skirmish/rpg mishmash. 1e Battlesystem was miniature agnostic, which was an industry standard but the Partha minis certainly supported it beyond the dedicated Battlesystem 2e minis they produced as any D&D branded mini was a support product for the entirety of the D&D/AD&D line if you insisted on branded minis.

Even early Warhammer didn't insist on Citadel miniatures, and a lot of warbands were kitbashed back then. Minis that weren't under the Warhammer banner found their way into Warhammer later, like the Melnibone and LOTR minis they produced back then. They also had a lot of Partha minis in there due to their partnership.
 


teitan

Legend
You'd think a mini-based game would be a solid idea. The minis can pull double duty selling for both the game, as well as D&D. My FLGS has a wall covered in minis, and a good quarter of it is WOTC D&D branded ones. So they're making them.
Those are made by Wizkids, different company. Wizkids is owned by NECA.
 

Stormonu

Legend
I don't have a 3D printer because it's a whole different hobby on its own. i.e. Until 3D printing is as easy as editing and printing a document at home, I'm not interested. I can't help but noticed 3D printers have improved in both quality and ease of use over the last few years in addition to becoming more affordable. I do think there's going to come a tipping point and GW's current lines of business will not be able to generate revnue as they have in the past. i.e. It's going to get too expensive. Though I realize people have been saying this for years.
I'm on my 2nd Photon printer (an ANYCUBIC Photon Mono 2, ~$150), setting up a print job is probably easier than wrestling with a paper printer. It's cleaning off the excess resin (and removing sprues) after a print that's a hassle. It definitely is a hobby of its own, though - you can wade for hours through the beautiful STLs and it can be easy to drown yourself in things that you've printed out. I haven't used mine in several months so I can catch up on my backlog. As for the cost, a 3D printer is front-loaded, but once you get into a print groove the money saved is pretty impressive. About 10 large prints pretty much pays for the printer.
 

payn

He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
I'm on my 2nd Photon printer (an ANYCUBIC Photon Mono 2, ~$150), setting up a print job is probably easier than wrestling with a paper printer. It's cleaning off the excess resin (and removing sprues) after a print that's a hassle. It definitely is a hobby of its own, though - you can wade for hours through the beautiful STLs and it can be easy to drown yourself in things that you've printed out. I haven't used mine in several months so I can catch up on my backlog. As for the cost, a 3D printer is front-loaded, but once you get into a print groove the money saved is pretty impressive. About 10 large prints pretty much pays for the printer.
Currently working on my basement workspace. Putting in a hood system so I can vent any paint I use in the airbrush, but also making space for a 3D printer. Cant wait! Im looking at the Elegoo Saturn 2.
 

Warhammer is not so good if you follow a "beta" army. For example let's imagine you want to create a wood elves army for Fantasy, and when finally the army book is published, then there is a new edition of the game, and you will have to await the new army book. And if you wanted to collect the ogre kingdoms or the chaos dwaves... or the mercenaries..

Maybe in your capital cities you can go to your store and choose what game to buy, but in other countries and in no so-big cities, the options are more limited. Where I live maybe I am the only geek who buys TTRPG books in that store, and in all the city shouldn't be more 20 people. Even if I lived in a bigger city, I could find people to play Vampire: the Masquerade but no so easy for Mage: the Ascension or Changeling: the Dreaming. And roleplayers when end studies and they have to work... they haven't got enough time or money to play again.

* I wonder how would be a Dragonlance: Total War videogame.
 

teitan

Legend
Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I believe a big portion of the issue with IP restrictions comes down to a monetization standpoint.

McDonalds owns the rights to the BigMac. You can not open a burger joint and sell a BigMac. McDonalds would be within their rights to sue you and try to shut down your business.

But if inside of your own home kitchen, you make a burger with two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, and onions on a sesame seed bun, and it's identical, and you even decide to put it into a cardboard box and call it a Big Mac before you eat it... Is that a crime?
Little known is that McDonald's copied the Big Mac recipe from Big Boy... their Big Boy burger was introduced first and then McDonald's introduced the Big Mac.
 

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