D&D 5E Where's the Villain? and other musings. Why some published campaigns are great and some aren't (Spoiler alerts)

[Hussar]

Does it though? It doesn't actually say anywhere in the adventure "Auril is the main villain". I would suggest that marketing decisions, such as the cover illustration, and the title (great pun, shame it fails to tell us what the adventure is actually about) caused people to approach it with incorrect preconceptions. If it was called something like "Lost City of Netheril" or "adventure for players who want to play evil characters who stab each other in the back" it all makes a lot more sense.

Often a problem with WotC adventures - cf. Dragonheist.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

I’m not saying it’s a genius plan or anything like that. I agree with you both. It would be great to have to do less work as a time-poor DM.

However, I don’t think the lack of connections are due to ignorance or oversight. Chris Perkins et al are choosing to keep things thin on purpose. They want 5e to be much more of a DIY game than either 3e or 4e were. I don’t agree with their decision, but I’ve learned to live with it.

It's not even 5E-specific. It's how Chris Perkins likes to run and use adventures. He's basically in charge of 5E's adventure policy while Crawford curates the rules.

Drill further and you'll notice more - CoS itself is a combination of the original Ravenloft module, plus maps and encounters purloined from earlier Perkin's works (look back in Dungeon magazine and you'll see what I'm saying).

 

[mamba]

it though? It doesn't actually say anywhere in the adventure "Auril is the main villain". I would suggest that marketing decisions, such as the cover illustration, and the title (great pun, shame it fails to tell us what the adventure is actually about) caused people to approach it with incorrect preconceptions.

I’d turn it around and say the adventure is not delivering what it ‘promised’, but in the end that means the same thing, what the adventure claims it is and what it actually is are not the same thing

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I’d turn it around and say the adventure is not delivering what it ‘promised’, but in the end that means the same thing, what the adventure claims it is and what it actually is are not the same thing

It doesn't make any direct claims of being about Auril though. That is an inference, not a promise. They only "promise" that was made at the time of launch is that it was inspired by The Thing, and that much is true.

 

[mamba]

It doesn't make any direct claims of being about Auril though. That is an inference, not a promise.

see the title and title image

The Amazon description includes / is 'Beneath the unyielding night sky, you stand before a towering glacier and recite an ancient rhyme, causing a crack to form in the great wall of ice. Beyond this yawning fissure, the Caves of Hunger await. And past this icy dungeon is a secret so old and terrifying that few dare speak of it. The mad wizards of the Arcane Brotherhood long to possess that which the god of winter's wrath has so coldly preserved--as do you! What fantastic secrets and treasures are entombed in the sunless heart of the glacier, and what will their discovery mean for the denizens of Icewind Dale? Can you save Ten-Towns from the Frostmaiden's everlasting night?'

which is more accurate, but the sequencing still indicates the Frostmaiden as the main obstacle. Esp. when you consider the title, image and this, I don't see how anyone can draw a different conclusion from this

 

[TheSword]

I’ve just finished re-watching True Detective in preparation of watching the new fourth season.

It struck me how powerful a villain - even if who they are is a mystery - for creating a driving motivation.

So many campaigns I see are just wandering around aimlessly looking for stuff to do. That’s actually my biggest criticism of Rime. There is nothing about the adventure actually driving the PCs except mild curiosity or boredom. Most of the progression stuff happens behind the DM screen - help x towns and y happens - without any reason for them to help beyond them being there.

Powerful party motivations that unite the PCs rather than individual motives that pull folks in different directions are essential for a great campaign I believe. I want to see near obsession pull/push my heroes on - despite the danger and the terrible things they see. That’s what makes those truly amazing campaigns that are never forgotten. Still interested to know what can tick this box if not a villain?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

see the title and title image

The Amazon description includes / is 'Beneath the unyielding night sky, you stand before a towering glacier and recite an ancient rhyme, causing a crack to form in the great wall of ice. Beyond this yawning fissure, the Caves of Hunger await. And past this icy dungeon is a secret so old and terrifying that few dare speak of it. The mad wizards of the Arcane Brotherhood long to possess that which the god of winter's wrath has so coldly preserved--as do you! What fantastic secrets and treasures are entombed in the sunless heart of the glacier, and what will their discovery mean for the denizens of Icewind Dale? Can you save Ten-Towns from the Frostmaiden's everlasting night?'

which is more accurate, but the sequencing still indicates the Frostmaiden as the main obstacle. Esp. when you consider the title, image and this, I don't see how anyone can draw a different conclusion from this

That's down to Amazon, which is absolutely riddled with inaccurate product descriptions.

I was speaking to a writer (usually published as Elly Griffiths - quick plug), and she says when her first novel was published the publisher gave it a "chick lit" type cover, because that type of book was all the rage at the time. It faired badly, because people bought it expecting something romantic and light, and got a dark psychological thriller instead. Many years later, when it was republished with a different cover, it did much better.

Based on what's in the actual text, rather than preconceptions, I like RotFM much more than either CoS or ToA.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

So many campaigns I see are just wandering around aimlessly looking for stuff to do. That’s actually my biggest criticism of Rime. There is nothing about the adventure actually driving the PCs except mild curiosity or boredom. Most of the progression stuff happens behind the DM screen - help x towns and y happens - without any reason for them to help beyond them being there.

This is true, and I feel that there was too much effort to make it a sandbox at the start and NOT assign motivations to the PCs. Unlike ToA which does the opposite and hammers the PCs over the head with an impending doom clock. But "why does my character care?" is always going to be an issue with published adventures (unless you do Dragonlance and assign pregens). After all, the authors can't read your players' back-stories and put in the hooks, the DM has to do that.

Personally, if I run RotFM again I will make the PCs part of the Hosttower expedition, with the start-point the senior wizards arguing and the expedition falling apart. Whoever can come back with a book of tenth level spells would be on a sure-fire path to status in the Hosttower. Do we give a monkey's about some frosty goddess or the fate of the locals? That's up to the players and doesn't matter for the main plot.

 

[TheSword]

It’s interesting to think about backstories. I often see backstory used as a reason for PCs to care about the campaign. And I do feel that yes players should create PCs with a reason to adventure and get involved. However, I also feel that a campaign needs to have enough drive to make me want to beat it in an of its own accord.

What is inspiring me now… six months and 5 levels into the campaign… to care about what is going on.

I’ve mentioned in the past that we’re playing a Scarlet Citadel game that @GuyBoy is running. Not only has he referenced a villainous group in the citadel led by a figure of evil from the past, he’s also had the foes within the citadel reaching out from beyond its levels to cause us problems. Our characters now have existential reasons to want to reach the end as well as baser motivations like revenge, power or greed - or just the fact that it there.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

However, I also feel that a campaign needs to have enough drive to make me want to beat it in an of its own accord.

That sort of thing can often make a campaign feel railroady. For example, "you are captured by slavers and have to escape and survive the Underdark" gives the players plenty of motive for adventuring, but it doesn't give them much choice.