D&D 5E [+]Exploration Falls Short For Many Groups, Let’s Talk About It

[S'mon]

When you say, "miss how D&D works", are you specifically speaking of the current edition of the game as officially expressed by Wizards of the Coast? Because if you aren't I can't agree. Both previous editions (I'm thinking of hexcrawl rules here) and 3pp versions of 5e (Level Up is a good example) spend time and effort on exactly those concerns.

I never really got into WSG/DSG so I can't speak to that. But I can say that running Dragonbane was eye opening as to how little wilderness survival matters to any edition of D&D I've ever run, including BX BECMI and 1e. Dragonbane actually defines how your individual pieces of mundane clothing & equipment assist your attempts to not die in the wilderness. Heck it describes the benefit you get from a haircut or a hot bath. No early edition of D&D even bothers describing the stuff on the equipment list. D&D only cares about your magic items, your skills, and your special abilities.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I never really got into WSG/DSG so I can't speak to that. But I can say that running Dragonbane was eye opening as to how little wilderness survival matters to any edition of D&D I've ever run, including BX BECMI and 1e. Dragonbane actually defines how your individual pieces of mundane clothing & equipment assist your attempts to not die in the wilderness. Heck it describes the benefit you get from a haircut or a hot bath. No early edition of D&D even bothers describing the stuff on the equipment list.

Could you unpack that a little, what does Dragonbane bring to the table?

 

[S'mon]

Could you unpack that a little, what does Dragonbane bring to the table?

"Dragonbane actually defines how your individual pieces of mundane clothing & equipment assist your attempts to not die in the wilderness"

TRADE GOODS
ITEM COST SUPPLY WEIGHT EFFECT
Abacus 2 gold Common 1 Boon on INT rolls for solving mathematical problems.
Blanket 5 silver Common 1 Required to avoid a bane on rolls to avoid the effects of cold
(page 54).
Chess Set 1 gold Common 1 Opposed roll for INT determines who wins.
Dice 1 silver Common — Chance determines who wins.
Field Kitchen 4 gold Common 2 Boon on BUSHCRAFT rolls for cooking (page 103).
Field Ration 1 silver Common 1/4 One ration must be consumed per day, otherwise
you become
hungry (page 54).
Grappling Hook 3 gold Common 1 Can be used to secure a rope. Can be thrown and secured with
an ACROBATICS roll up to STR meters (STR × 2 with a bane).
Lockpicks,
Advanced
20 gold Rare 1 Boon on SLEIGHT OF HAND rolls for picking
locks.
Lockpicks, Simple 1 gold Uncommon 1 Required to avoid a bane on SLEIGHT OF HAND rolls for
picking locks.
Magnifying Glass 30 gold Uncommon 1 Boon to SPOT HIDDEN rolls.
Map 5 gold Uncommon — Required to avoid a bane on BUSHCRAFT rolls for leading the
way during journeys.
Marbles 1 gold Common 1 Can be thrown at a humanoid enemy within 10 meters, as an
action. Next turn the enemy must make an EVADE roll (not an
action) in order to move.
Padlock 10 gold Common — Locks a door or chest. Can take 20 points of damage,
armor rating 5.
Perfume (10
doses)
5 gold Common 1 Boon on CHA-based skill rolls when the GM finds it reasonable.
Playing Cards 5 silver Uncommon — Opposed roll for BLUFFING determines who wins.
Quiver of Arrows,
Iron Head
2 gold Common 1 Required to fire bows or crossbows.
Quiver of Arrows,
Wooden Head
5 silver Common 1 Required to fire bows or crossbows. The effectiveness of
armor is doubled.
Rope, Hemp (10 meters)
1 gold Common 1 Boon on ACROBATICS rolls for climbing, but the rope must be
secured to something.
Rope, Silk (10 meters)
10 gold Uncommon — Boon on ACROBATICS rolls for climbing, but the rope must be
secured to something.
Saddle 10 gold Common 1 Required to avoid a bane when fighting from horseback.
Sleeping Fur 1 gold Common 1 Required to avoid a bane on BUSHCRAFT rolls for making camp.
Spyglass 50 gold Rare 1 Boon on BUSHCRAFT rolls for leading the way during journeys.
Tent, Small 2 gold Common 2 Can accommodate up to two people. Grants a boon on BUSHCRAFT
rolls for making camp. Only one person rolls, but others
can help.
Tent, Large 4 gold Common 4 Can accommodate up to six people. Grants a boon on BUSHCRAFT
rolls for making camp. Only one person rolls, but others
can help.
Whistle 5 silver Common — Can be heard from up to 100 meters away.

 

[FrozenNorth]

The problem is everyone likes and dislikes different types. Some people come in desiring to disable hazards and obstacles. Other find them boring. Some love the lore in Wonders and Discoveries. Others ignore lore and therefore don't care for nonviolent versions of them. Routines are just devise.

I think D&D has to do a better job of outright calling out what types of challenges there are to players and let them have a clear conversation with DMs with which ones they enjoy to compromise.

I have a similar but somewhat different view to @Minigiant . You can’t address exploration unless you figure out what the purpose of exploration is. And the purpose of exploration varies from group to group. Most groups have more than one purpose they enjoy, but probably finds other purpose(s) dull.

Not an exhaustive list:
1. Resource attrition. For some groups, tracking resources and having to deal with the unforeseen is enjoyable. To engage them, you need encounters that force them to use resources that aren’t easily replenished on a long rest. Make diseases longer lasting and more debilitating. Create new conditions that don’t disappear on a long rest. Damage or destroy equipment.
2. Flavour. Some groups like exploration encounters for what they say about the world. In the middle of a long trek through the Mourn land, the party comes across a massive warforged. Or a peddlar shares their food and regales tge party with stories. Nothing is really at stake, but it’s fun and gives the party a chance to improvise. Doesn’t require mechanical changes apart from avoiding the rote “you come across a chasm with the rope bridge destroyed”.
3. Resource generation. Say you are running a more domain focussed game. The party may not care about encounters that tax their resources or encounters that exist for world-building purposes, but they will care that a particular hex contains an iron mine they can develop. Or a pool they can drink from once per month that grants 10 temp hp.
4. Obstacle. Far too many pre-made exploration encounters fall into this category, but it has its place. The trick to an obstacle is that it has to be meaningful. There are very few obstacles that can’t be overcome if you take sufficient time, so give the party a reason to hurry. You need to bring the flower that cures lycanthropy to the village in the next 3 days! Now, deciding to risk an obstacle or take the time to go around it becomes a choice.
5. Side quest/adventure hook. Some parties mainly like exploration encounters because they open up the world by creating or giving space to new adventures.

My point is that even non-resource attrition oriented parties can enjoy exploration encounters so long as those encounters address the aspects of the game they enjoy. Conversely, even resource attrition oriented parties will find exploration encounters a drag if they don’t actually impact the resources they have at their disposal.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Level up doesn't have to cater to the whole community.

No, but if WotC won't do proper exploration rules for those who want them, better game companies can and do step up.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yep. That's exactly how old-school exploration works. And it's fantastic. But it's also a lot of resource management and bookkeeping. And the vast majority of players now refuse to have anything to do with resource management or that level of bookkeeping. They want more cinematic exploration. Which is where things like dramatic tests and skill challenges come in.

Dramatic tests and skill challenges are only the framework, not the details. The referee needs to provide the details. If you remove the details and only care about the skill roll, you're doing it wrong. As you say, for exploration to matter, it has to be worth the details. Trouble is, the vast majority of modern D&D players don't want the level of detail required for old-school exploration. Hell, most groups dumped encumbrance back in the '80s. Talk about removing the details.

More's the pity. The sad part is we'll never know what new players might enjoy, because WotC already decided for them and won't offer anything else. I expect that what they're offering is also easier to design and possibly balance is just a coincidence...

 

[Micah Sweet]

I never really got into WSG/DSG so I can't speak to that. But I can say that running Dragonbane was eye opening as to how little wilderness survival matters to any edition of D&D I've ever run, including BX BECMI and 1e. Dragonbane actually defines how your individual pieces of mundane clothing & equipment assist your attempts to not die in the wilderness. Heck it describes the benefit you get from a haircut or a hot bath. No early edition of D&D even bothers describing the stuff on the equipment list. D&D only cares about your magic items, your skills, and your special abilities.

Sounds awesome, similar to what my favored OSR game does.

Not familiar with Dragonbane. Do you have a link?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I have a similar but somewhat different view to @Minigiant . You can’t address exploration unless you figure out what the purpose of exploration is. And the purpose of exploration varies from group to group. Most groups have more than one purpose they enjoy, but probably finds other purpose(s) dull.

Not an exhaustive list:
1. Resource attrition. For some groups, tracking resources and having to deal with the unforeseen is enjoyable. To engage them, you need encounters that force them to use resources that aren’t easily replenished on a long rest. Make diseases longer lasting and more debilitating. Create new conditions that don’t disappear on a long rest. Damage or destroy equipment.
2. Flavour. Some groups like exploration encounters for what they say about the world. In the middle of a long trek through the Mourn land, the party comes across a massive warforged. Or a peddlar shares their food and regales tge party with stories. Nothing is really at stake, but it’s fun and gives the party a chance to improvise. Doesn’t require mechanical changes apart from avoiding the rote “you come across a chasm with the rope bridge destroyed”.
3. Resource generation. Say you are running a more domain focussed game. The party may not care about encounters that tax their resources or encounters that exist for world-building purposes, but they will care that a particular hex contains an iron mine they can develop. Or a pool they can drink from once per month that grants 10 temp hp.
4. Obstacle. Far too many pre-made exploration encounters fall into this category, but it has its place. The trick to an obstacle is that it has to be meaningful. There are very few obstacles that can’t be overcome if you take sufficient time, so give the party a reason to hurry. You need to bring the flower that cures lycanthropy to the village in the next 3 days! Now, deciding to risk an obstacle or take the time to go around it becomes a choice.
5. Side quest/adventure hook. Some parties mainly like exploration encounters because they open up the world by creating or giving space to new adventures.

My point is that even non-resource attrition oriented parties can enjoy exploration encounters so long as those encounters address the aspects of the game they enjoy. Conversely, even resource attrition oriented parties will find exploration encounters a drag if they don’t actually impact the resources they have at their disposal.

What's the purpose of combat? I expect it also varies from person to person and group to group, yet we sure have a lot of rules for that!

 

[Umbran]

More's the pity. The sad part is we'll never know what new players might enjoy, because WotC already decided for them and won't offer anything else.

No, WotC did not decide what new players enjoy. They decided what game they wanted to produce.

No finite ruleset can provide EVERY game experience available. So, as a practical matter, each game must cater to only some play experiences. It is not a fair critique that the designers made choices - they all have to.

You don't like their particular choices, for your own play? Fine. Trashing them for doing a thing that is literally necessary to publish a game? Not fine - that's an awful argument.

 

[S'mon]

Sounds awesome, similar to what my favored OSR game does.

Not familiar with Dragonbane. Do you have a link?

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