D&D General Joe Manganiello: Compares Early 5E to BG 3 . How Important is Lore?

[Micah Sweet]

because in the real world things change over time, as does our understanding.

A setting is a world. World's have always changed. They always will change. The stories told within them have always changed upon a new telling (see Canterbury Tales or Arthur or Beowolf). Nothing in life is stagnant.

Sure, but the real world doesn't change the past. It moves forward. I have no problem with that kind of change.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I will when you do.

I do state my preferences as just that. If you see any place where I don't, I admit it as a mistake. Do you?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't think you are getting the point.

WOTC is not going to use a setting written in 1970s or 1980s for a 2020s audience.

If you want WOTC to not change the lore, they can. However they wont reprint the settings and create expansions of their lore.
Can't have your cake and eat it too. Can re-offer an unchanged, not updated, setting to a customer base not in the same demo and expect big bucks.

Old shows and movies go to the old tv show network and streaming service.
The remakes get changes and updates.
Don't want changes then you wont get the remake.

Then don't, or if you decide to do a re-make (which I don't see a non-greed point for doing, but whatever), make it clear that it is a re-make, and not just a mechanical update to the original.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I didn't mean they'dlitterally lose their IP.

I meant if WOTC did nothing with their IP, it would be usurped by another IP and become useless. Essentially losing it due to the value of it being ruined under them.

Essentially what I m saying is that WOTC can't sit on D&D, do noting with it because they are antichange, and expect to make money.

There are fans hat don't want IP to change with the times nor sell licenses to those who will. If you do this the IP slowly becomes irrelevant.
D&D and most of its settings aren't so great that they are timeless on their own.

That's quite a different statement than you made previously. I hope you understand why folks called you on what you said before.

And how "timeless" any particular piece of creative work is is not something that can be objectively declared like you have here. Your opinions above are just that.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Dragonlance was good not sure what people’s problem with the adventure were.

Good adventure, or good depiction of Krynn?

 

[Minigiant]

Depends on elements of Samdstorm but yes a lot of stuff would likely be appropriate.

2E didn't have genasi in it but it did hint at elements people SE of Balic iirc.

This not appropriate magi tech, outer planar stuff, default dragon things, metal and water/food immunities things.

Adding Warforged to Darksun is kinda silly even if you buy into making them out of wood and stone.

Barbarians in theory as well not all subclasses for of course.

Sorcerers, Warlocks also fit at least theoretically if you gave them Athasian options and they follow defiling rules whatever those rules are (they don't have to be exactly like 2E except creating ash imho). Warlocks would be Uber rare.

Any organic race could also fit as long as they're mutants and you don't plop a major settlement. This could also be the extinct races but you're the only one.

Racial restrictions also push the new options to the front eg Kreen, Half Giants, Muls

Yeah,and all other is requires lore changes.

The Original %e team was going for an old school feel. And their surveys had a lot of old school surveyors.

But these people didn't stick with 5e. They as a majority moved to the OSR movement.

5e was mostly left with millenials and later filled up with gen z. Gen Y and Z are majority "middle -schooler" (late 3e and 4e) and new schoolers in game design and game narritive.

So %e switched to more new school approached around TCOE and almost fully new school in 2024.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah,and all other is requires lore changes.

The Original %e team was going for an old school feel. And their surveys had a lot of old school surveyors.

But these people didn't stick with 5e. They as a majority moved to the OSR movement.

5e was mostly left with millenials and later filled up with gen z. Gen X and Z are majority "middle -schooler" (late 3e and 4e) and new schoolers in game design and game narritive.

So %e switched to more new school approached around TCOE and almost fully new school in 2024.

All speculation that. OSR isn't that big and Tashas is often widely panned or banned.

Kinda like 3.5 Book of 9 Seords. Alot of people didn't know about it, use it or actively banned it.

5E blew up partly because it is what it is based on feedback from 2012-14.

Post Tashas the books are in a slump from available data so one could easily argue moving away from what made 5E popular is a mistake.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah,and all other is requires lore changes.

The Original %e team was going for an old school feel. And their surveys had a lot of old school surveyors.

But these people didn't stick with 5e. They as a majority moved to the OSR movement.

5e was mostly left with millenials and later filled up with gen z. Gen X and Z are majority "middle -schooler" (late 3e and 4e) and new schoolers in game design and game narritive.

So %e switched to more new school approached around TCOE and almost fully new school in 2024.

What the heck counts as Gen X then? I'm 48, started on Metzer and played a lot of 1e and 2e, then a year or two each of 3e and 4e before moving back to 1e/2e, then 5e from 2014 to a little over a year ago when I switched to Level Up and the OSR. I've always considered my self Gen X.

 

[Micah Sweet]

All speculation that. OSR isn't that big and Tashas is often widely panned or banned.

Kinda like 3.5 Book of 9 Seords. Alot of people didn't know about it, use it or actively banned it.

5E blew up partly because it is what it is based on feedback from 2012-14.

Post Tashas the books are in a slump from available data so one could easily argue moving away from what made 5E popular is a mistake.

In fact, ignoring that argument to me is more of a statement on personal preference than anything else.

 

[Zardnaar]

In fact, ignoring that argument to me is more of a statement on personal preference than anything else.

Yup the new players get a say in 5.5 tests what the playrest is for.

That argument is usually used to justify vad product.

Old or new you still have to make quality product. Recent WotC offerings have tended to be sub par.

Nothing to do with who it's aimed at late edition material is often experimental, niche or a bit rubbish. Not every OSR or TSR product is good there's a lot of crap there as well.