D&D General Who “owns” a PC after the player stops using them?

[Maxperson]

Get permission when using someone elses character.

Do I need permission to kill their PC? Do I need permission to turn their PC into a frog forever? Do I need permission to reincarnate their character into a goblin? Do I need permission to have an NPC cast dominate person on them and have them say or do what I want them to?

Maximally, there can be legal actions.

No there can't. There is no damage(legal harm) done to them because I played their former PC in my private home game.

 

[Schmoe]

Where do we draw the line at disrespecting the inworld character of a player though? Is a character dying in a random encounter also disrespectful because it does not give the player an end that that they had agreed to? Is challenging a PC's personality traits also disrespecting the player since it might reveal that their character does not have the values they profess to have?

To be fair, I actually think it can be disrespectful, depending on the expectations that should have been laid out in session 0. While I haven't ever played in such a game, some people do feel very strongly that they expect their characters to have a meaningful story arc that won't be cut short by a random encounter. That's the whole purpose of session 0, and players who aren't comfortable with the game a DM plans to run should be comfortable not participating.

But in the end that's what this whole thing boils down to - respect between people playing the game. The legal argument is balderdash and poppycock, but respecting each other is extremely important! Be clear with expectations and treat each other with respect.

 

[billd91]

Honest question, isn't that how everyone does it? Most players I know relish the idea of getting to screw up the party for a bit.

Sadly, no. Some players just do not play along.

 

[Ondath]

To be fair, I actually think it can be disrespectful, depending on the expectations that should have been laid out in session 0. While I haven't ever played in such a game, some people do feel very strongly that they expect their characters to have a meaningful story arc that won't be cut short by a random encounter. That's the whole purpose of session 0, and players who aren't comfortable with the game a DM plans to run should be comfortable not participating.

But in the end that's what this whole thing boils down to - respect between people playing the game. The legal argument is balderdash and poppycock, but respecting each other is extremely important! Be clear with expectations and treat each other with respect.

Yes, but that kind of limit is - as you say so as well - down to preference. Some people want character death to only happen when it is meaningful and that's a valid choice (it's what I agree with in 5e most of the time as well).

But the point is that it's a matter of preference, not morality. Nobody commits a moral wrong against you when they kill your character in a random encounter. If it was established that that wouldn't happen in Session 0, they're being a wangrod. But that is still ways away from the moral and legal evil that some people claim autonomy loss always is.

 

[Yaarel]

Do I need permission to kill their PC?

Permission happens when agreeing to play a lethal game.

However, bullying and harassment can still happen. Such as if every single monster only attacks the marginalized player.

Do I need permission to turn their PC into a frog forever?

Also part of a game with spells, but again within respectful limits.

Do I need permission to reincarnate their character into a goblin?

Maybe.

If the player rolls the random table, that implies a kind of permission for the result of the table.

Do I need permission to have an NPC cast dominate person on them and have them say or do what I want them to?

Again, bullying and harassment can be an issue, especially if the Dominated is somehow assumed to participate in some sexually suggestive scenario.

Absolutely, permission is necessary.

Better yet, allow the player to roleplay the Dominated effect.

No there can't. There is no damage(legal harm) done to them because I played their former PC in my private home game.

Disrespect is damage. Defamation is legally damage. Bullying is damage. Harassment is damage.

There can be damage.

There must be permission.

 

[Irlo]

This thread has jumped the shark. I’m out.

I’ll be offline the rest of the day. I have to meet with my lawyers because the authorities discovered that I used to pretend to be Fonzie.

 

[Umbran]

Do I need permission to kill their PC? Do I need permission to turn their PC into a frog forever? Do I need permission to reincarnate their character into a goblin? Do I need permission to have an NPC cast dominate person on them and have them say or do what I want them to?

So, the details matter.
When a player sits down at the table to play their character, there is an at least implicit agreement about what kind of stuff will happen - possibly an explicit agreement, if you run a solid Session Zero.

Beyond that - the tables I've run at for the past 15+ years have had separate agreements about what might happen if the player isn't at the table - including how much risk the character will be in if their character is present, but run by the GM or another player.

I think there ought to be yet another agreement if the character is going to be used as an NPC in a context beyond the campaign the PC was being played in.

Broadly - the PC is the player's intellectual property. Make an agreement on how you use it when it is borrowed.

There is no damage(legal harm) done to them because I played their former PC in my private home game.

Yeah, but "there is no legal harm" is not the basis of the social contracts we work under.

 

[Thomas Shey]

At the very least it requires accepting the concept of "intellectual property", which outside an economic context I'll be really blunt and say I don't, so...

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Do I need permission to kill their PC? Do I need permission to turn their PC into a frog forever? Do I need permission to reincarnate their character into a goblin? Do I need permission to have an NPC cast dominate person on them and have them say or do what I want them to?

No there can't. There is no damage(legal harm) done to them because I played their former PC in my private home game.

I don’t get it really.

We had some retired characters turn into tavern owners and later other characters went to their establishment and it was a funny surprise on the part of the DM.

I think this like so much else this is a test of asshattery. If people cannot figure out how to play well together it’s them and not the game.

I also think it speaks to the perils of playing with people you do not know well. It can be super fun—but there are a certain percentage of asshats out there.

There is a huge difference between a DM making challenges that have the potential to kill you vs. one relishes your failures and trying to humiliate your character for kicks.

The DM does not need my permission to set up a perilous world. Heck I am asking for perils so I have an exciting challenge.

That said there are those folks three standard deviations out who like to lord over players in an antagonistic way. But that is a people problem.

And if a player cannot tolerate any misfortune because “their story” is not played out…eek.

DMs and players need to be able to adapt and have plans ruined. It’s part of the thrill of a living world with consequences.

 

[tetrasodium]

Honest question, isn't that how everyone does it? Most players I know relish the idea of getting to screw up the party for a bit.

Yup... The most horrified reaction I've ever seen a party give was when one player said to the group "oh y'all are bleped" in a voice normally reserved for gming growly monsters while playing a god wizard type control/(de)buff PC is ''oh.. y'all are bleped" after being charmed and told "protect me by a mindflayer or something.

According to some recent posts in this thread it seems like the player in question was off base because they never considered "I might get charmed and feel the need to unload on the party" when none of the players who have a problem with the usual god wizard debuffs Brit deployed against them proactively voiced that particular red flag