Rules-Lite VS "Crunchy" TTRPG Systems

[Thomas Shey]

I think it's worth noting that rules light systems constrain detailed mechanical character options and mechanical PC growth. They certainly don't constrain options and PC growth outright. Classic Traveller is a good example of a fairly rules light system that supports both character options and PC growth, though not by way of detailed mechanical subsystems. People have (and continue to) play extremely long-lived Classic Traveller campaigns despite the lack of such things being baked into the system.

I think this pretty much handwaves away what we're talking about when we talk about character options; which is to say, yes, if it doesn't have mechanical support for some, it doesn't have them (or is dependent on brute GM intervention, which is essentially houseruling them in anything but name). Your system either has support for a character having, say, better vision or it doesn't.

 

[Thomas Shey]

And that's fair. I just wanted to make sure that a lack of mechanics for such things wasn't being suggested as a lack of support for long-term play, because it's not.

It doesn't intrinsically do so, but at least the lack of any non-training method of character growth doesn't do that any favors.

 

[MGibster]

Of course, that argument works best for games in which it can clearly be discerned, ideally via designer notes, what it was designed for. Some games and game designers are wonderfully clear on this, while others choose to be vague.

Unless the authors specifically say their game is designed to handle a wide variety of settings within a particular genre or genres, nobody reasonable person should expect it to do so. Anyone who picks up Traveller with the expectation that they can easily emulate a Star Wars or Star Trek experience has no business blaming the game for their frustrations. The majority of RPGs tell you what the game is all about on the back cover.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Unless the authors specifically say their game is designed to handle a wide variety of settings within a particular genre or genres, nobody reasonable person should expect it to do so. Anyone who picks up Traveller with the expectation that they can easily emulate a Star Wars or Star Trek experience has no business blaming the game for their frustrations. The majority of RPGs tell you what the game is all about on the back cover.

There is more to design than genre.

 

[MGibster]

There is more to design than genre.

Yes. But we're talking about how reasonable it is to expect a game within a specific genre to be broadly playable anywhere within that genre. Unless the game specifically says it's designed to be somewhat generic, expecting it to be so is unreasonable. Criticizing Vampire the Masqurade because the rules for vampires aren't generic is like complaining that a Porche 911 can't haul a lot of hay. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yes. But we're talking about how reasonable it is to expect a game within a specific genre to be broadly playable anywhere within that genre. Unless the game specifically says it's designed to be somewhat generic, expecting it to be so is unreasonable. Criticizing Vampire the Masqurade because the rules for vampires aren't generic is like complaining that a Porche 911 can't haul a lot of hay. It just doesn't make sense.

Is "automobile" a genre? Seems like apples and oranges to me.

 

[MGibster]

Is "automobile" a genre? Seems like apples and oranges to me.

I seem to have lost the thread here. I have no idea where you're going with this.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I seem to have lost the thread here. I have no idea where you're going with this.

I don't understand your metaphor. What a game is about is expressed by the setting, but just as importantly it is expressed by the rules. Every edition of D&D is a fantasy game. Were they all designed for the same thing?

 

[MGibster]

I don't understand your metaphor. What a game is about is expressed by the setting, but just as importantly it is expressed by the rules. Every edition of D&D is a fantasy game. Were they all designed for the same thing?

Vampire the Masquerade, Call of Cthulhu, Blade Runner, Shadowrun, and Cyberpunk are all games where the setting and the rules tell you what the game is all about.

 

[Umbran]

I don't understand your metaphor. What a game is about is expressed by the setting, but just as importantly it is expressed by the rules. Every edition of D&D is a fantasy game. Were they all designed for the same thing?

You seem to be talking past him, in some other conversation than he is in.

He noted (and he can correct me if I am wrong) - unless the game tells you that is plays broadly in its genre, you should not expect that it will do so.

You're carrying on about design, but it is unclear why you are doing so in response to what he said.