Rules-Lite VS "Crunchy" TTRPG Systems

[GuardianLurker]

I'm not sure how to answer this, honestly. I've always been a little unsure as to what was meant by "rules-light". I mean in TTRPG terms, the most rule-light game I've played is Amber Diceless. OTOH, most of the Paranoia games I've played have started with the GM essentially saying "You can put away the rulebooks. They won't help." And then having a great game.

My biggest concerns for most of the Rules-Light TTRPGs I've encountered is that they require a great deal of trust in the GM, and they assume an experienced GM. And often, a high degree of GM and player familiarity with the source material. There also appears to be a strong bias towards one-shot story games, which aren't a big interest of mine.

TD;LR. I haven't played a lot of them. I have some problems with how fuzzy the definition is. I've had fun playing games at both ends of the spectrum. What's a "Medium-Weight" TTRPG?

 

[Deset Gled]

What's a "Medium-Weight" TTRPG?

Arguably, D&D 5e.

https://www.enworld.org/threads/how-crunchy-is-d-d-5e.684492/

While I personally voted a 4 in that poll, it's pretty accurate to say it's near the midpoint of the current zeitgeist. "Crunchy" is more than 5e. "Rules lite" is less than 5e.

 

[overgeeked]

I love me some rules-light games. The lighter the better.

 

[payn]

What's a "Medium-Weight" TTRPG?

I dont believe such a thing exists.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I just lack the time or interest in rules dense systems unless. Something like Old School Essentials with the advanced books is advanced enough for me. So a simple system that has a lot of options is good. I'm playing to hang out with friends and do some adventure gaming, I'm not interested in characters that need a spread sheet or that you have to plan a career path so you don't "screw yourself down the road". I think of all the time we wasted when playing 3.x pouring through rule books, and there were many, to clarify how a feat works or how this situational modifier applies. The fun happens at the table with the people you are gaming with and the rules need to stay out of the way. YMMV.

 

[Argyle King]

As I've said elsewhere, it's been my experience that "rules lite" doesn't always mean that a game is intuitive and/or easy to learn.

Sometimes, vagueness can cause complications at the table -especially if the rest of the game's structure doesn't give any indication of how something ought to be ruled so as to maintain consistency with the rest of the game.

Likewise, a crunchy set of rules can be easier for some people to grok if the rules are intuitive and lead to intuitive results.

 

[kronovan]

I find myself sometimes shying away from rules lite, because the character builds are too lean for what IMO would make for a well featured and enjoyable PC. Some rules lite get it right like FATE Accelerated and many of the Tiny d6 companions. I recently read a setting based on Year Zero and characters for it just seemed very lean and lacking to me. I've had players bounce off of the Cypher System for similar reasons; albeit some of its rules aren't so lite. I like some of the iterations of AGE, which is rules lite enough for me to place all the minor & major actions on 1 letter-sized player handout, but which also has full-featured PCs. I don't so much mind playing rules lite with minimalist PCs at CONs, but not for lengthy adventures or campaigns.

I don't mind crunch if it's purposeful and done well. I like the heavy combat crunch in Mythras and the space combat and travel crunch in Traveller. I've also at times found myself adding in the extra crunch (adventure toolkit options) for Savage Worlds campaigns. I'd categorize myself as someone who generally prefers medium crunch systems.

 

[ART!]

Very timely topic for me, since I have been sifting through my gaming pdfs today and organizing them by style, simplicity, etc.

I lean toward wanting rues that are simple but that incentivize drama. I don't mind a bit of crunch if it helps the drama happen - for instance I'm trying track down what version of Rolemaster had the skill group result tables for various levels of success and failure. That's a level of crunch I think a lot of games appropriately skip, but I like not having to figure out what kind of thing happens every time someone rolls really well or really poorly.

 

[grimmgoose]

It's a preference thing. I like a good medium-crunch (I consider Savage Worlds to be "medium crunch").

It's enough to sink your teeth into, but not full of specific and obtuse rulings (like 5E has a tendency to do). The core mechanic does 90% of the heavy lifting, but there's enough to play around with.

For reference (and this is not at all scientific and is entirely based on vibes), but of the games I've played, I'd categorize them thus:

• PF2E: super heavy crunch
• 5E: heavy crunch
• Genesys: medium crunch
• Savage Worlds: medium crunch
• Call of Cthulhu: light-medium crunch (honestly mostly light, except for the Auto-Fire rules and the Sanity stuff)
• Mothership: light
• Heart: The City Beneath: light

 

[payn]

It's a preference thing. I like a good medium-crunch (I consider Savage Worlds to be "medium crunch").

It's enough to sink your teeth into, but not full of specific and obtuse rulings (like 5E has a tendency to do). The core mechanic does 90% of the heavy lifting, but there's enough to play around with.

For reference (and this is not at all scientific and is entirely based on vibes), but of the games I've played, I'd categorize them thus:

• PF2E: super heavy crunch
• 5E: heavy crunch
• Genesys: medium crunch
• Savage Worlds: medium crunch
• Call of Cthulhu: light-medium crunch (honestly mostly light, except for the Auto-Fire rules and the Sanity stuff)
• Mothership: light
• Heart: The City Beneath: light

This is a good example of the preference in action. I think the more one groks a system the more likely they are to declare it medium. I certainly dont think PF2 is "super heavy" and I dont think 5E is "heavy" compared to the examples above. Then again, I dont believe in medium crunch being a thing. I think the CoC example about being lite until its not sort of attests to the grok level and how folks interpret crunch level.