D&D (2024) Greyhawk Confirmed. Tell Me Why.

[Gradine]

No, the best setting ever is Glorantha, but that's neither here nor there.

Funny, I've never seen Eberron spelled that way

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure. But there are degrees of complaint, no? And I guarantee you that if they'd picked Nentir Vale, the howls would have been loud.

It's too bad. Nentir Vale is a perfect setting for modern WotC D&D sensibilities.

 

[Remathilis]

You are probably right about that, but that doesn't mean that Greyhawk was specifically intended to be all of whatever D&D is, and therefore is intended to be expanded to take on anything added to D&D over the decades. Again, that's Eberron.

Says who?

Did people complain when Monster Manual 2 added all manner of new creatures to Oerth? How about Unearthed Arcana when Demi human deities like Moradin were expanded? Was there an outcry when Kara Tur was originally supposed to be part of Oerth? What about all the additions made by 2e, let alone the massive changes made by 3e? When does the setting no longer accept new changes? When is the door closed, sorry no more room? Who decided?

I don't buy it. This is an argument reeking with the odor of old people trying to convince us that things were better in their age, when cars, music, and fashion was at its peak and then the kids came in and ruined it. I'm not buying that the oldest kitchen sink setting can't be a kitchen sink because it was made when there was less stuff to put in the sink.

 

[Cadence]

Says who?

Did people complain when Monster Manual 2 added all manner of new creatures to Oerth? How about Unearthed Arcana when Demi human deities like Moradin were expanded? Was there an outcry when Kara Tur was originally supposed to be part of Oerth? What about all the additions made by 2e, let alone the massive changes made by 3e? When does the setting no longer accept new changes? When is the door closed, sorry no more room? Who decided?

I don't buy it. This is an argument reeking with the odor of old people trying to convince us that things were better in their age, when cars, music, and fashion was at its peak and then the kids came in and ruined it. I'm not buying that the oldest kitchen sink setting can't be a kitchen sink because it was made when there was less stuff to put in the sink.

To be fair, it was true about the music.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Says who?

Did people complain when Monster Manual 2 added all manner of new creatures to Oerth? How about Unearthed Arcana when Demi human deities like Moradin were expanded? Was there an outcry when Kara Tur was originally supposed to be part of Oerth? What about all the additions made by 2e, let alone the massive changes made by 3e? When does the setting no longer accept new changes? When is the door closed, sorry no more room? Who decided?

I don't buy it. This is an argument reeking with the odor of old people trying to convince us that things were better in their age, when cars, music, and fashion was at its peak and then the kids came in and ruined it. I'm not buying that the oldest kitchen sink setting can't be a kitchen sink because it was made when there was less stuff to put in the sink.

Kara Tur was in Faerun. And I'm not saying the setting cannot accommodate change. I am refuting the claim that Greyhawk was always intended to cover everything D&D, which functionally means it never had any flavor of its own. Greyhawk was created as Gary's setting, and it was intended to have what Gary wanted it to have. Since he was also a foundational member of D&D's design team, Greyhawk and D&D at the time closely resembled each other. Extending that similarity across time, long after the passing of its creator, and claiming that was always the intent of the setting is inaccurate.

Also, your simile is aggravating and insulting. Please don't assume that your opinions are more correct than others because they happen to be in vogue.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Kara Tur was in Faerun. And I'm not saying the setting cannot accommodate change

Nope, it was originally in Greyhawk. It was moved.

 

[Belen]

As a definite sign that each successive generation mostly desires the suffering of the generations that come after it.

I will never forgive the people who made me read the 90% paid padding of Great Expectations.

I loved Great Expectations when I read it in High School. It made me read more Dickens. Likewise, being forced to recite the Prologue to the Canterbury Tales in Middle English made me read more Chaucer.

 

[Cadence]

Nope, it was originally in Greyhawk. It was moved.

It was originally supposed to be in Greyhawk (before publishing)...

Dragon #102 TSR Coming Attractions:

However the terms Oerth and Greyhawk don't appear in the actual book...

Zeb Cook's intro to OA:

Edit: However, Kara Tur is mentioned in WG8 Fate of Istus in several places! It appears to be reached by a magical gate, so who knows if it is the same world or not.

 

[Nikosandros]

I loved Great Expectations when I read it in High School. It made me read more Dickens. Likewise, being forced to recite the Prologue to the Canterbury Tales in Middle English made me read more Chaucer.

Likewise with plenty of Italian literature that I was made to read and study in high-school.

 

[Remathilis]

Kara Tur was in Faerun. And I'm not saying the setting cannot accommodate change. I am refuting the claim that Greyhawk was always intended to cover everything D&D, which functionally means it never had any flavor of its own. Greyhawk was created as Gary's setting, and it was intended to have what Gary wanted it to have. Since he was also a foundational member of D&D's design team, Greyhawk and D&D at the time closely resembled each other. Extending that similarity across time, long after the passing of its creator, and claiming that was always the intent of the setting is inaccurate.

Also, your simile is aggravating and insulting. Please don't assume that your opinions are more correct than others because they happen to be in vogue.

Kara Tur was intended to be Oerth. It got put on Faerun because after Gary's ouster, the intention was to bury Greyhawk and promote the Realms. Hmmm that sounds familiar. Damn WotC!, er TSR!

So how about this; you find one piece of evidence that Greyhawk was not intended to be a kitchen sink, and I'll concede. I've already surrendered that I don't have the inclination to find evidence it was, so all you have to do is find an example of something that wasn't made for a different specific setting (so no kenders or muls or the like). One example of something from the core books or the generic supplements (like Unearthed Arcana) was never supposed to be on Greyhawk.

Give you a hint, you're not going to find it in the post 2000 Greyhawk material.

Because all I hear is a bunch of classic rock fans annoyed that they are playing Pearl Jam in between Led Zeppelin and Rolling Stones tracks.