D&D (2024) Greyhawk Confirmed. Tell Me Why.

[Parmandur]

We have different ideas of "small". The entire history of every county and region of interest in Greyhawk is far too much for most people to digest in a reasonable amount of time.

The entire history as presented in 1980, sure it is, it's only 32 pages.

 

[Remathilis]

Personally, I feel WotC has done a good job balancing bringing back the old and bringing in the new. That's probably why both sides are complaining. "They keep recycling old material and have no new ideas!" "Why have they forsaking X setting? Why don't they care about long-time fans."

I have named this conundrum the Planescape Dilemma.

When Ravnica came out, fans complained it would kill any chance of Planescape because they were both urban fantasy settings.
Then Radiant Citadel came out and fans complained it would kill any chance of Planescape because they were both planar metropolises.
Then Planescape was announced and people complained it would be "ruined" like the changes to Ravenloft, Spelljammer and Dragonlance.
And when it finally came out and it was very faithful to the original setting (with a few changes to factions, even most of those explained in context) people complained it wasn't giving any new information then they already had in the 2e box set.

The goa posts shifted constantly to make sure they could justify not buying it and bemoaning how manhandled the setting was. The end goal was always to justify their hate.

 

[Demetrios1453]

The entire history as presented in 1980, sure it is, it's only 32 pages.

Wouldn't it be funny if the Greyhawk info was just a reprint of the original folio?

I mean, it won't be. But it would be funny.

 

[Demetrios1453]

I have named this conundrum the Planescape Dilemma.

When Ravnica came out, fans complained it would kill any chance of Planescape because they were both urban fantasy settings.
Then Radiant Citadel came out and fans complained it would kill any chance of Planescape because they were both planar metropolises.
Then Planescape was announced and people complained it would be "ruined" like the changes to Ravenloft, Spelljammer and Dragonlance.
And when it finally came out and it was very faithful to the original setting (with a few changes to factions, even most of those explained in context) people complained it wasn't giving any new information then they already had in the 2e box set.

The goa posts shifted constantly to make sure they could justify not buying it and bemoaning how manhandled the setting was. The end goal was always to justify their hate.

I hated this, and remarked upon it each time it happened. And in the end, when there was little that could be argued that the setting was "ruined", they moaners had no choice to be upset it didn't contain basically all the information from the entire original 2e Planescape line. Which would have required like a thousand or more pages, and was so patently ridiculous that it left no real cover for their arguments.

 

[Hussar]

I have named this conundrum the Planescape Dilemma.

When Ravnica came out, fans complained it would kill any chance of Planescape because they were both urban fantasy settings.
Then Radiant Citadel came out and fans complained it would kill any chance of Planescape because they were both planar metropolises.
Then Planescape was announced and people complained it would be "ruined" like the changes to Ravenloft, Spelljammer and Dragonlance.
And when it finally came out and it was very faithful to the original setting (with a few changes to factions, even most of those explained in context) people complained it wasn't giving any new information then they already had in the 2e box set.

The goa posts shifted constantly to make sure they could justify not buying it and bemoaning how manhandled the setting was. The end goal was always to justify their hate.

To be fair, it is possible that those were three different groups of people. I mean, it is possible. Unlikely perhaps but possible.

 

[Minigiant]

I see no reason why Greyahwk wouldn't.

It currently doesn't.
And there is no guarantee WOTC will update it.

That is 90% off the problem.

Greyhawk is freaking OLD.
To match 5th edition's mechanics, assumptions, and content, Greyhawk needs an update.

And there is no guarantee WOTC will update it.
A not-updated Greyhawk is a poor education material.
You would be forcing new DMs to do something with the knowledge to do it.

And here is the Catch-22

An updated Greyhawk has no charm. It's just Alt FR.

 

[MNblockhead]

It currently doesn't.
And there is no guarantee WOTC will update it.

That is 90% off the problem.

Greyhawk is freaking OLD.
To match 5th edition's mechanics, assumptions, and content, Greyhawk needs an update.

And there is no guarantee WOTC will update it.
A not-updated Greyhawk is a poor education material.
You would be forcing new DMs to do something with the knowledge to do it.

And here is the Catch-22

An updated Greyhawk has no charm. It's just Alt FR.

I don't know about that. I've been looking at the '83 box set a lot in the past few days. I don't see much of anything I would need to change to run it in 5e, as is. Some of the stat blocks would need to be updated, but I can do that on the fly, especially D&D beyond handy.

The lack of representation of certain species in the descriptions and random encounters doesn't bother me. I'm happy with dragonborn, tieflings, etc. being very rare. If I wanted to put in a bit of work, I would just chose an area to be a dragonborn kingdom and whip up some random tables.

Really, all WotC would need to do is create new sets of random tables, which isn't that heavy of a lift.

 

[JEB]

Then Planescape was announced and people complained it would be "ruined" like the changes to Ravenloft, Spelljammer and Dragonlance.
And when it finally came out and it was very faithful to the original setting (with a few changes to factions, even most of those explained in context) people complained it wasn't giving any new information then they already had in the 2e box set.

Eh, I know of at least one poster here who thought that about Planescape, but was pleasantly surprised with the final product (and has said so here). I wouldn't be surprised if others felt that way too. It's just that folks are (in general) more inclined to complain about the things they don't like than praise the things they do.

 

[MNblockhead]

Eh, I know of at least one poster here who thought that about Planescape, but was pleasantly surprised with the final product (and has said so here). I wouldn't be surprised if others felt that way too. It's just that folks are (in general) more inclined to complain about the things they don't like than praise the things they do.

I don't think any of the setting books fell flat, except perhaps Spelljammer. But I have to admit to not having read through it. I only know what I read about it. I know a lot of people didn't like Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft. But I am not invested in the older material, and just going on the merits of the 5e version, I could see running an adventure or campaign using it. It may not be true to the original Ravenloft, but since I don't care about that, I thought it was fine.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't know about that. I've been looking at the '83 box set a lot in the past few days. I don't see much of anything I would need to change to run it in 5e, as is. Some of the stat blocks would need to be updated, but I can do that on the fly, especially D&D beyond handy.

The lack of representation of certain species in the descriptions and random encounters doesn't bother me. I'm happy with dragonborn, tieflings, etc. being very rare. If I wanted to put in a bit of work, I would just chose an area to be a dragonborn kingdom and whip up some random tables.

Really, all WotC would need to do is create new sets of random tables, which isn't that heavy of a lift.

Bolding the part you are missing.

A setting used as an eductional tool isn't for you.
The 70s-80s Greyhawk is a great setting.
It's a poor educational tool for teaching new DMs how to run the stuff in the 2024 PHB, MM, and DMG.

A manual for a beginner and a guidebook for an expert are different.