D&D 5E Enhancing Vecna: Eve of Ruin *SPOILERS*

[Paul Farquhar]

So, I don't own this and am unlikely to, but my brain kicked this out in the shower this morning anyway:

Maybe the answer to the traitor issue -- and it definitely would be off-putting to me as a player or DM -- is "Oops, All Traitors."

The reason the other Wizards Three don't figure out that something is up is that none of them are who they say they are, which also gets around the "wait, Tasha has something better to do with her time than the end of the world? And where are the rest of the big-deal wizards from Oerth and Faerun?"

If all three of them are villains working together, they can have come up with something to have distracted the heroic NPCs who might otherwise be involved and they also would be going along with the traitor's ruse.

I don't know how much the two non-traitors matter to the rest of the campaign, but just a thought.

I thought about this, I don't think Alustriel really works as either a villain or an imposter. Doesn't feel right. However, she could be replaced with a different wizard - Raistlin comes to mind - who would work better as either a villain or a surprise non-villain.

It might be possible to set up a situation were Tasha tricks Alustriel into believing the PCs are villains.

One of the PCs is actually the disguised villain was another option that occurred to me.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I don't like the premise: Vecna is going to remake the multiverse. If that was really his plan, he would have a lot more than a few adventures a breathing down is desiccated neck. I either need an explanation for why other gods are not trying to stop him, or a less ambitious goal that they would care about as much. Probably need both!

It's established that Vecna always thinks many steps ahead of his opponents. He wouldn't even start the ritual until he had ensured that gods and major powers could not intervene. "Whoops, I forgot about the gods" would be so out of character that it can be ignored. Maybe that's what the obelisks were for, but the details really don't matter, since the players have no way of learning them. Which means only those who Vecna considered beneath his notice would be left to oppose him.

As the god of secrets, Vecna is very very good at keeping secrets. The probability of detecting what he is up to is very low (but non-zero). Nevertheless, there may be other groups across the multiverse working against him, the multiverse is a big place. However, there is no reason the PCs would expect to cross paths with them, especially since the Rod of Law is not required. Maybe some got to Vecna first, and were destroyed. Maybe others are still working on assembling whatever McGuffin they plan to use.

 

[Clint_L]

• Vecna recruiting Lolth feels uncharacteristic for both of them. No on that.

Yeah, I agree. I think I'll have both just being allies of convenience with a plan to double-cross the other. I feel like Vecna would think he could outsmart Lolth, and Lolth would feel like she could manipulate Vecna.

Instead of Miska, I'm going to be using a gargantuan spider miniature that I have, so I think I'll have that as a powerful demonic entity who is ultimately working for Lolth.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

First glance it seems too easy to find the pieces. If it was so easy why hasn't already been assembled. I am going to try to thinks of ways to make it more difficult to assemble the pieces. Maybe bring back the old requirement they have to be in order too.

The requirement that the rod must be assembled in the right order is in this adventure. The teleporting away if you try to put them together wrong isn't mentioned, but I think it's just assumed that isn't going to happen (for reasons of pacing).

As for making it more difficult, do you mean some sort of puzzle for the players to fit together*, or harder to find? We discussed Doctor Who: The Key to Time earlier. The big takeaway is to disguise the pieces as something else. If I remember correctly, they are a lump of rock, a pendant seal, a planet, part of a statue, a holy symbol turned kaiju giant squid, and a person.

The assembled rod is itself a threat to the multiverse, gradually imposing absolute order (i.e. stasis). Thus, it must be broken up and the pieces scattered immediately after it is used. It's been assembled, and broken up, many times before.


*In Doctor Who, there is a running gag that the Doctor cannot figure out how to fit the pieces together, Romana has to do it.

 

[BeachRat88]

Some additional thoughts/points I'm going to work through...

• Thread Miska's influence throughout the campaign rather than him just being a set-piece at the end. Miska, the OG Prince of Demons, has been imprisoned for a LONG time but probably has been able to spread his influence using his minions/Queen of Chaos/etc all along. If not, why not?
• Determine the relationship between Lolth and the Queen of Chaos [and why Lolth is working with Vecna (should be to perform a coup at the end a supplant him)].
• Restore the chaotic properties of the Rod of Seven Parts. EoR sadly only requires an action to assemble each piece, and also sadly, has no repercussions if it's done improperly. I can see having a couple of other 1-shot settings or places lying in wait just in case (Shadowfell, Feywild, etc).
• Replace simulacrum spell with a less game-breaking spell that's more relevant to the Rod in 2e.
• Mordy is the real Mordy
• Additional arch-demon NPCs appear in select places. Each wants a seat at the table given that all demons envision themselves as the ultimate BBEG and don't want to "miss out".
• Characters will probably have to visit a larger part of Sigil to figure out where some of the other Rod pieces are.
• Infinite Staircase and its major NPC will play a roll.

More to come later...

Additional thoughts...

• Lolth vs Queen of Chaos: they are one and the same similar to how Tiamat and Takhisis are, etc. She is still aligned with Vecna but not to "be by his side" as the module states. She is because she LOVES creating chaos, and while she doesn't think Vecna's plan to remake the multiverse will succeed, she feeds on the chaos surrounding it. She also sees a side benefit in adding Miska back to the demon lineup in the Abyss. The implications of this are that Lolth is the one who has put a plot into motion to free Miska. Also, Miska (via Lolth) will be on team Vecna, until it's no longer profitable for Lolth.
• Blood War: aka Law vs Chaos. I'm think I'm going to lean in to what I said earlier about Vecna/Miska/etc tipping the balance of the Blood War and therefore the devils playing a larger role. The Nine Hells will be "allied" with the party, as a resource of information on Rod locations and also in the final battles.
• Still figuring out what to do with Kas. Not sure if I want to leave him in Tovag (for the PCs to visit) or move him to another place on the board....

 

[Shardstone]

Another idea I like: the obelisks were a way to distract adventures and draw attention across the multiverse, leaving Vecna an opening to do this ritual.

 

[dave2008]

The requirement that the rod must be assembled in the right order is in this adventure. The teleporting away if you try to put them together wrong isn't mentioned, but I think it's just assumed that isn't going to happen (for reasons of pacing).

As for making it more difficult, do you mean some sort of puzzle for the players to fit together*, or harder to find? We discussed Doctor Who: The Key to Time earlier. The big takeaway is to disguise the pieces as something else. If I remember correctly, they are a lump of rock, a pendant seal, a planet, part of a statue, a holy symbol turned kaiju giant squid, and a person.

The assembled rod is itself a threat to the multiverse, gradually imposing absolute order (i.e. stasis). Thus, it must be broken up and the pieces scattered immediately after it is used. It's been assembled, and broken up, many times before.


*In Doctor Who, there is a running gag that the Doctor cannot figure out how to fit the pieces together, Romana has to do it.

My first thought was to make them harder to find, but I am coming around to the idea that will not 100% be necessary (to my mind). So I am thinking that simply getting and/or putting them together is more difficult. Not sure how yet. Some thoughts:

• Like your idea the rod is dangerous and needs to be broken and has been assembled and disassembled many times. (explains why its piece locations might be better known).
• Maybe the adventure is not to get the whole rod, but a final piece or two. For the way my group plays, gaining 10 levels in the time of this adventure isn't realistic, so I am having an issue with that - but really is an us issue. Not something that needs to be solved for most groups I don't think.
• Tying into your previous idea of Kas wanting / needing to return Vecna to the DoD: that is what he needs the rod for (restore the "correct" order of things), not freeing Miska. Maybe the last piece is actually keeping Miska imprisoned, so assembling the rod frees Miska? This idea doesn't work well with the idea it has been used many times though. Though I think I have an idea for that.

 

[Thommy H-H]

One really fundamental but also somehow really simple change I'd make to this adventure if I ran it is that I wouldn't make the stakes as high as they are. I get why they wanted to cap off 5.1e and celebrate 50 years of D&D or whatever with a HUGE THREAT TO THE WHOLE MULTIVERSE but, like, I don't think the adventure needs it? And Vecna's ultimate aims and how he plans to achieve them are so vaguely defined, I'm not sure it adds anything while also begging the question why the rest of the multiverse's gods aren't getting involved. Vecna is going to literally reshape existence and the only people who know about it are the daughter of a goddess of magic in one setting, and Iggwilv? Plus the ~~spooky fingers~~ Dark Powers?

Nah, feels tacked on to me! I don't know if it was, but I'd rework it to be about Vecna trying to restore himself to godhood after some defeat. Since Arkhan having the Hand is already canon, I'd even maybe imply it was his failure in Exandria that caused his current diminished status. (I don't know the current legal status of the Critical Role stuff so they may not have been able to make this explicit, had they gone this route.)

I think that nothing needs to change in the adventure this way, it just makes Vecna not being a god when you fight him a more organic situation and, crucially, leaves you with a playable failure state. Yes, Vecna becomes a god (again), and that's Bad, but it doesn't destroy the whole multiverse. Or Kas becomes a god instead! You have an out there too if things play out differently in earlier chapters.

As it is, it's all a bit crossover for crossover's sake. If the multiverse is under threat, I want to see worlds trembling, the pillars of reality collapsing, time and space unravelling, not hunting werewolves in Krynn and helping the crew of a crashed spelljammer overcome their personal conflicts. The adventure doesn't fit the stakes imo.

 

[dave2008]

Any sense of what broad genre of goal you're looking toward? I know you read MotP5E, you could take the notion we laid down in that with Lord Sortlyn's presence and elaborate on there being some kind of "outside" that Vecna wishes to reach - the "Final Secret" that would allow him to not rewrite the multiverse, but transcend it entirely, leaving behind any notion that the rules that have always bound his existence in some fashion could ever contain him again.

I haven't given it a lot of thought yet. However, the one idea that I did have is somewhat similar to your suggestion. Basically:

• He is working on the Ritual of Remaking
• The Wizards 3 believe the Ritual is to rewrite the Multiverse.
• The ritual is really to "remake" himseld and transcend to an Elder god or Overgod or similiar. Something many deities would not like, but not Multiversal threat (since there are other overgods, etc).

@Clint_L had a good idea that Venca's purpose is to get control of the DIvine Gate. Which is interesting, but also seems like something other gods would intervene to stop, so I am not sure I want to go that way.

Still trying to think of other ideas.

 

[dave2008]

One really fundamental but also somehow really simple change I'd make to this adventure if I ran it is that I wouldn't make the stakes as high as they are. I get why they wanted to cap off 5.1e and celebrate 50 years of D&D or whatever with a HUGE THREAT TO THE WHOLE MULTIVERSE but, like, I don't think the adventure needs it? And Vecna's ultimate aims and how he plans to achieve them are so vaguely defined, I'm not sure it adds anything while also begging the question why the rest of the multiverse's gods aren't getting involved. Vecna is going to literally reshape existence and the only people who know about it are the daughter of a goddess of magic in one setting, and Iggwilv? Plus the ~~spooky fingers~~ Dark Powers?

Nah, feels tacked on to me! I don't know if it was, but I'd rework it to be about Vecna trying to restore himself to godhood after some defeat. Since Arkhan having the Hand is already canon, I'd even maybe imply it was his failure in Exandria that caused his current diminished status. (I don't know the current legal status of the Critical Role stuff so they may not have been able to make this explicit, had they gone this route.)

I think that nothing needs to change in the adventure this way, it just makes Vecna not being a god when you fight him a more organic situation and, crucially, leaves you with a playable failure state. Yes, Vecna becomes a god (again), and that's Bad, but it doesn't destroy the whole multiverse. Or Kas becomes a god instead! You have an out there too if things play out differently in earlier chapters.

As it is, it's all a bit crossover for crossover's sake. If the multiverse is under threat, I want to see worlds trembling, the pillars of reality collapsing, time and space unravelling, not hunting werewolves in Krynn and helping the crew of a crashed spelljammer overcome their personal conflicts. The adventure doesn't fit the stakes imo.

I had the same issue (mentioned up thread a bit). I was developing a different solution, but I think yours is a lot easier and more organic. I think will run with this general idea (and change a few other things too). Thank you for sharing. The simple solution is usually the better one!