Pathfinder 2E I think I am giving up on PF2ER

[Retreater]

Just divide by 20 then, multiply by however many levels you want to reach.

Do you want a campaign to consist of 1*levels combat and 1.5*levels other activities?

So a four-level campaign is 4 combats and 6 other activities like tracks and wounds?

No, I don't think there's a formula. I was just saying that ~200 is too many for my interest.

4-10 combats/events would be a decent "short adventure" somewhere between a PFS scenario and a module.

 

[Velderan]

No, I don't think there's a formula. I was just saying that ~200 is too many for my interest.

4-10 combats/events would be a decent "short adventure" somewhere between a PFS scenario and a module.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess if you played AD&D 2e, you were an exp for gold DM?

 

[Retreater]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess if you played AD&D 2e, you were an exp for gold DM?

Pretty much by the book, actually, but also awarded XP for roleplaying, quest objectives, etc.
I don't think I tried to do XP for gold until I played 5E. We were doing Barrowmaze, so I thought it fit in with the megadungeon feel.

 

[Incenjucar]

No, I don't think there's a formula. I was just saying that ~200 is too many for my interest.

4-10 combats/events would be a decent "short adventure" somewhere between a PFS scenario and a module.

For every 4-10 combats, how many scenes do you want to spend addressing lingering wounds or tracking things?

 

[Justice and Rule]

For every 4-10 combats, how many scenes do you want to spend addressing lingering wounds or tracking things?

Honestly I would be down for it, but I think we have to recognize that this is sort of an ancestral aspect of d20 systems: they've never really been built to handle lingering conditions that aren't, like, plot-important. Most of the time it's just about healing yourself up, not about what wounds you have. It'd be really cool to have that sort of system in d20, but I suspect a lot of people would say "That's not D&D" really quickly.

EDIT: This also feels like something that D&D has also moved further and further away from in modern times. 3E obviously had the wand stuff, but 4E was moving away from it with the ability to heal one's self and 5E you can recover hit points overnight in the standard playstyle. With PF2, there's so much access to healing that you should be good to go if your party has even basic healing in it.

 

[Incenjucar]

Honestly I would be down for it, but I think we have to recognize that this is sort of an ancestral aspect of d20 systems: they've never really been built to handle lingering conditions that aren't, like, plot-important. Most of the time it's just about healing yourself up, not about what wounds you have. It'd be really cool to have that sort of system in d20, but I suspect a lot of people would say "That's not D&D" really quickly.

EDIT: This also feels like something that D&D has also moved further and further away from in modern times. 3E obviously had the wand stuff, but 4E was moving away from it with the ability to heal one's self and 5E you can recover hit points overnight in the standard playstyle. With PF2, there's so much access to healing that you should be good to go if your party has even basic healing in it.

My experience is that this sort of thing is interesting as a one-off novelty but becomes a drag as a regular thing, like having a spellcaster recite an incantation every single time they cast a spell.

Edit: Tracking ammo, food and water, components, etc. are more typical examples.

 

[Justice and Rule]

My experience is that this sort of thing is interesting as a one-off novelty but becomes a drag as a regular thing, like having a spellcaster recite an incantation every single time they cast a spell.

Edit: Tracking ammo, food and water, components, etc. are more typical examples.

It really depends on the type of game you want. But d20 is not really built under those assumptions, which means it requires more than a bit of work to get that sort of feel out of it... and it's never going to feel right, regardless.

 

[Retreater]

For every 4-10 combats, how many scenes do you want to spend addressing lingering wounds or tracking things?

Like ... having to manage resources like spell slots or maybe being down HP, I'd prefer 66% - 75% of fights be with the characters not at 100% power and able to go "nova."
But my root concern is that I want scenes mostly connected to a story - whether that is a metaplot OR more importantly the narrative the players themselves are creating. I'd prefer 90% or more of scenes to be meaningful or connected to the tension of adventuring in a real world with consequences.
Whereas the AP format is "x# of encounters are required to get to a predetermined level to get to the next chapter" and most scenes are meaningless speed bumps.
Monsters can be given room to breathe a bit. Lead up to the dragon fight by having scenes with clues about what's going on, hit and run encounters, and have those count the same as "combats" with kobold underlings.

 

[Incenjucar]

Like ... having to manage resources like spell slots or maybe being down HP, I'd prefer 66% - 75% of fights be with the characters not at 100% power and able to go "nova."
But my root concern is that I want scenes mostly connected to a story - whether that is a metaplot OR more importantly the narrative the players themselves are creating. I'd prefer 90% or more of scenes to be meaningful or connected to the tension of adventuring in a real world with consequences.
Whereas the AP format is "x# of encounters are required to get to a predetermined level to get to the next chapter" and most scenes are meaningless speed bumps.
Monsters can be given room to breathe a bit. Lead up to the dragon fight by having scenes with clues about what's going on, hit and run encounters, and have those count the same as "combats" with kobold underlings.

So more like 4E? Or low-level casters in 2E?

90% implies 4-10 fights to 36-90 scenes of struggling or tracking.

Assuming a 5 hour session that's at best one combat per session, more likely .5 combats per session unless they're super easy.

So a lot more like a horror monster-of-the-week game than heroic fantasy? Have you tried horror fantasy games?

 

[Retreater]

So more like 4E? Or low-level casters in 2E?

Maybe. I don't like having a battle and then have the PCs be completely unphased an hour later for the next fight. That has been the default experience I've had with PF2.

90% implies 4-10 fights to 36-90 scenes of struggling or tracking.

I don't necessarily mean "they are down to 2 HP and no spells." There is a gradient. I just don't like one fight having almost no bearing on the next fight. Or to the session (or campaign) overall. It makes it seem a waste of time.

Assuming a 5 hour session that's at best one combat per session, more likely .5 combats per session unless they're super easy.

3 hours of actual play is closer, by the time we settle in and start the session, take breaks, etc

So a lot more like a horror monster-of-the-week game than heroic fantasy? Have you tried horror fantasy games?

Call of Cthulhu, Warhammer Fantasy, Mork Borg, Vaesen, TSR-era D&D and OSR? Stuff like that?