D&D General Defining "New School" Play (+)

[pemerton]

Yeah, there are a lot of things I will tell my players, because it is simply something that makes absolute sense for the character to know. "Oh, your character is a noble from this region? Then you would have heard about the scandal of this family, because it was the hot gossip of the last six balls your attended."

In the new school, a player might say "Hey, my fighter was the commander of a squad of soldiers in the war, he might know a better way to engage with these enemies." and then roll, and the DM would give information. Like, "Well, you know that similar troops often kept mounts near the walls, so you might be able to spook them to cause a distraction" Because that is the sort of thing a veteran of many battles in a long war could reasonably know

What school is it where the player takes the lead in providing this sort of PC knowledge and memory?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

What do you mean by "gamist"?

It is designed game-mechanics-forward. This was, for example, why the "prone" condition was explicitly described as not being literally always a creature that has fallen down on its ventral or dorsal plane, but rather as a creature that has been discombobulated. This could manifest as having fallen on its face/back, but could also affect "legless creatures, such as fish and snakes, as well as amorphous creatures, such as oozes", and that one should "imagine such creatures as writhing or unsteady, rather than literally lying down. The game effect on that creature is the same as for other creatures." (Emphasis added.)

This was extremely offensive to some of the "process" sim folks out there.

It's not really about being an expert.....just a knowledgeable person.

What, exactly, defines a "knowledgeable person" about the differences in various kinds of woods? Because I'd be willing to bet that unless you are a carpenter, woodturner, builder, etc. yourself, the absolute most a typical person knows is that some woods are "hard" and others are "soft", some smell nice (like sandalwood or cedar), and some are used for cooking (like mesquite).

A typical Old School DM is keeping track items and materials. This is part of the fun for many Old School DMs. Many Old School players like this too, so everyone matches up ok.

Wait, so you're saying you have a shared style expectation and it's helpful to keep everyone on the same page?

You spent so long blasting the idea that everything has to be perfect, everyone has to be in mental lockstep. Now you're admitting that's something old school wants too. Seems kinda contradictory.

Another type of fun....a bit beyond the game. Is where the DM and player can share the like of knowledge, history and other topics.

This leads into the DM giving the players things to look up and read. Both to expand general real world knowledge....but also help in the game. If a player wants to know more about a topic, I'll give them a reading list. Or even lend them a book.

Yeah, I'd never give my players homework for the game. I'll share my knowledge--during or after session--but I'd never assign them a bloody reading list. That would kill their interest faster than you can say Bob's your uncle.

 

[jmartkdr2]

What school is it where the player takes the lead in providing this sort of PC knowledge and memory?

Story-first or storygame (two distinct styles by the way)

 

[EzekielRaiden]

One thing that I think is hard to acknowledge is that there has been an evolution of TTRPG "technology" over the lifetime of DnD.

It's extremely difficult to get people to even accept that TTRPGing has technology in it. That it is a technique, which can be made better or worse, that it actually does admit SOME areas of refinement even though not ALL parts of it are able to be refined.

 

[pemerton]

Story-first or storygame (two distinct styles by the way)

I probably associate it most strongly - in the context of published games - with HeroWars (2000) and Burning Wheel (revised, 2004). Which makes it contemporaneous with "new school" as some in this thread are defining that!

 

[pemerton]

It is designed game-mechanics-forward. This was, for example, why the "prone" condition was explicitly described as not being literally always a creature that has fallen down on its ventral or dorsal plane, but rather as a creature that has been discombobulated.

This has been a feature of RPG design from day one, although different games put different sorts of fig leaves over their "gamism" (as you're calling it).

Eg in Traveller all hyperspace jumps take 1 week regardless of distance, all turn-around times in commercial starports are 1 week throughout the galaxy, etc.

In AD&D the duration and pacing of all mechanically meaningful events can be measured in metronomic minutes, ten-minute turns, hours or days.

Etc.

Some people just didn't like the shape of 4e's fig leaves, but it didn't have any more of them.

 

[Clint_L]

It's pretty hard to discuss changing player attitudes without veering into "kids these days..." territory. Frankly, when we go there, I think what we mostly see are our own cognitive biases.

Objectively speaking, one thing I can say is that kids these days are a lot more likely to be interested in TTRPGs than in my generation, and I get a much more diverse set of players than we ever saw at our teenaged games. I was in college before I ever played a TTRPG with a girl or woman. For real. And the data we've seen bears that out, with roughly 40% of current players identifying as female.

On top of that, although I still get a lot of the nerdy kids, we get our fair share of jocks and artsy kids, too. There is huge overlap with Pride Club, at least at my school. And this drives character choices that are much more varied than I saw as a kid (plus, there are many more options to choose from).

So I guess another defining feature of new school play is that it is much more diverse, both in game and out.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Nor have I ever known a GM let my real-world knowledge of metallurgy, steam engines, and coal mining allow my character to kickstart an industrial revolution in a classic pseudo-medieval D&D setting.

(That said, there are times where I like it when real-world knowledge can be brought to bear. I ran a pirate-themed game with a player who was really into Age of Sail-era history and nautical stuff in general, and his knowledge was a definite boon. Having the right terminology for things helped set the mood.)

Oh yeah, and I would never... almost never to be fair, tell someone not to help with their IRL knowledge of various things. A player who knows a lot about sailing helping me make the sailing in the game better? Yes please! I just wouldn't make it required for players to know about sailing to properly get through that section of the game.

My hesitance on "never" comes from a recent game where a player who has DEEP knowledge of Greco-Roman everything interrupted a game to give us a brief history of the difference between Fauns and Satyrs, and to let us know that actual Satyrs were horse-faced individuals, and the monster we think of as satyrs are actually fauns. Which, was interesting, but didn't exactly add anything to the game. And I can see that style of correcting the terminology to be less helpful.

 

[Chaosmancer]

One relates to the other IMO. Yes, I think changes are part of it, but they care less because of those other things.

Also, I am not talking about old games dying because players grew-up, job full-time jobs, or have families. I am talking about younger players NOW who really seem to have a difficult time committing to the game, learning the rules and features, etc. Rarely do I find a player (maybe 1 in 6 or so) who does "show up" both literally and figurativly; they read the books, check stuff out online, really learn to play the game.

We always had other things that demanded our time before, so having those things now is no different really. Ultimately, I find this is simply a change in attitudes, commitment, even things like attention spans, etc.

I'm not convinced. Plenty of studies have demonstrated that people are more stressed and have less free time. It just doesn't feel accurate to me that "young people care less than they used to". It could also be an artifact of DnD being more mainstream and acceptable. Maybe the young people of the 80's were ONLY those 1 in 6 you see now, but before the other 5 of 6 wouldn't even attempt the game, and now they are willing to give it a chance.

 

[Chaosmancer]

What school is it where the player takes the lead in providing this sort of PC knowledge and memory?

I would say if it is optional it is new school. If the DM is requiring it, it is old school.