D&D (2024) D&D Pre-orders; this is sad

[Parmandur]

I am surprised it still is as much vaporware as it is today, imo they are far behind their initial / intended schedule

Doesn't surprise me, if they have AAA level ambitions then it will take hundreds of people uwqrs of work to get it up to snuff.

It does sound like "Sigil" (which is the name of the VTT) will be unveiled soon, however.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

The biggest thing people have to fear is fear itself: FOMO.

They will release exclusives in the digital space of various sorts. Eventually, to drive people to virtual spaces, the they will release some content in this space only. (Not talking core books).

That is my guess.

I don’t think it will be soon or complete. You just have to be ok with not being complete and current in every way and there is no issue.

I skipped whole editions…which reminds me…

No one thinks they are not releasing 5.5 right?! In this alone you have got many years of games ahead. 5.0 was a decade! I have too many pressing things that in life to deal with. Hell if I am “safe” for a decade, no way I am spending time on this.

I am magnetizing my homemade dungeon and terrain.

I am also thinking about how to buy a case of miniatures (really like eye of ruin) without my spouse killing me.

But think: these print books are coming out! There is no question about it!

Are we worrying about editions not even designed yet? It’s too remote for me to sweat. My challenge now is to decide if I want to buy all of 5.5 or just the DMG!

I say go play a cool game of D&D! Play a race you have not played before and enjoy NOW instead of worrying about “one day, maybe.”

 

[Micah Sweet]

Okay but... "If I stop buying DnD then I can't purchase DnD" is kind of a no-brainer. Sure, it would suck if WoTC stopped printing books and you don't feel like buying and downloading PDFs, but I don't really think it makes sense to start proudly declaring how the industry will be destroyed because you will stop buying products and then will be unable to buy products.

The original complaint as I understood it, is that if DnD went full walled garden, then anyone who doesn't purchase access to the garden won't have access to DnD materials. But that just won't work with how the DnD game and community are structured, which is why they likely won't attempt to make a walled garden. It wouldn't be worth the effort

What pdfs do you think WotC is putting out? Nothing for the current rules.

 

[Micah Sweet]

First, it's an assumption with no evidence that they make more selling a book on DDB, not a fact. Unless you are privy to their books, of course. Running servers and keeping them online is not free.

Second, I would think that they want to sell you both a physical book and digital. Heck, they'd appreciate it if you bought a second physical copy with the special cover as well just to put on your shelf.

Third, profit is profit. There's very little extra overhead to setting up the books relatively speaking.

Fourth, we have no idea how many people would reject online only. People keep floating this hypothetical future where people won't care. Which, if they do, why would it matter? This is a confusing part of the whole argument. Online is going to be so amazing we'll not want books. So if no one wants books, which again I don't see happening, then no one is affected if books are unavailable.

Fifth, the assumption that they would not lose significant percentage of new and casual players. That if you cut off books, which many people love and prefer, that a competitor won't come in and fill the gap.

Last, but not least, with DDB you have far more resource sharing than you do with physical books. You still have the physical book setup overhead but it's much, much easier to share my DDB resources with my entire group. It's a worse model for them than selling books.

I currently share my DDB account with a dozen or so people at this point across 3 different groups. All those people have access to books that they now do not have to purchase for themselves. I'm not convinced that they would not be making more money if the option to ignore digital entirely was open to them.

The thing is that I think they are practically being forced into digital whether they like it or not just to stay relevant. This is not something they were at the forefront of, after Gleemax crashed and burned they were understandably reluctant to pursue a digital approach. Now that they finally are, they're being pilloried for ... wait for it ... pursuing a digital approach. They can't win.

Beyond selling pdfs, I never wanted WotC to take a digital approach with any version of D&D.

 

[Oofta]

Beyond selling pdfs, I never wanted WotC to take a digital approach with any version of D&D.

You may not, but I think broader trends indicate otherwise. Good news is, you don't have to use digital tools and I don't see that ever changing.

 

[Cadence]

Wrong thread!

 

[Chaosmancer]

they won’t stop it while it is that product

So how will it stop being that product?

tell that to computer games, also, you won’t need a subscription immediately, just like you do not need one for DDB to buy books there

Show me a computer game that can be played without a computer, a physical product sold in most stores. And do you know where the computer games are sold in those physical stores? Next to the computers. Why is that? Because someone looking to buy a computer, will then see the computer games.

Also, I love how you say we won't need a subscription "immediately". WoTC is supposedly making money hand over fist with the current model, they are supposedly going to make even more money by somehow forcing us all digital and THEN they will close the trap and make it a subscription service because something something it will definitely happen

get people to see digital as the primary go-to. As I said, have exclusive digital content and increase the print prices but not the digital prices. They have been doing the former for a while, I’d expect that to increase, and they just did the latter for books going forward.

What exclusive digital content will they release for the rules of the game? And yeah, book prices increase as the prices for everything increase. And how do you know digital prices won't increase? The costs for digital things will be going up as well, and since the profit margins on those products are supposedly so much higher, it would be even better for them to raise digital prices.

But you don't think they will, so they can lure us in with a false sense of security before trapping us all into digital only. Which will totally happen. Because reasons that you can't articulate beyond "corporations greedy" and "it happened to video games"

 

[Remathilis]

really, I’d thought you dismiss them as conspiracies


eh, I have no interest in fear mongering, I do not see it as such either. If you had said it is nothing but speculation then I’d say you have a point, it absolutely is, even if from my perspective the odds are in my favor

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. Show me where WotC plans to wind down physical media sales in favor of all digital, and I'll agree. Otherwise it's all fea- uh speculation.

And yes, this thread is full of fear mongering. There are people who are basing their opinion on the game now on the speculation that WotC will quit selling physical books in X years (5, 10, 20, etc) and the assumption that WotC will cut off it's nose to spite it's face when so far, there is nothing but cheap gossip and baseless rumor to go on. It's out of step with current media trends, and Hasbro's own digital games policies, but it makes great doom posting to imagine a world where D&D is locked behind digital only platforms, where spells are bought individually, and where players can buy potions of healing with real money on their digital character sheets and DMs can't stop them.

If it was presented as a "what if" it would be worthy to speculate on. But it's presented as a "will happen soon" and that's not in touch with reality.

 

[Chaosmancer]

You know what, I'm going to try a different tactic. Maybe this will make some impact, but I doubt it with how entrenched people are in this idea.

Let us talk board games.

Did you know that board games are online and sold digitally? It is true. There is actually a digital version of two of my favorite boardgames, and I'm actually excited to wait for a 3rd, which will cover the reprint of one of the games. The company behind the digital board games I'm talking about is Handelabra, and the board game company is Greater than Games. I'm a huge fan of theirs and I follow all of their news. They have a podcast I listen to regularly.

They also released a TTRPG, Sentinel Comics which I have referenced a few times. But, implementation of the kickstarter for their RPG has been painfully slow, and they get asked fairly regularly about how it is going and how it compares to their board game product of the same IP, which is also a virtual board game.

They have said, repeatedly, that it is harder making money with RPGs than it is with boardgames. That the board game market is bigger, more robust, and more profitable. And, digital, virtual board games have been around for a LONG time. Over 20 years easily.

If going fully digital was the sure-fire move of corporations, and it was so profitable... why has no board game company EVER gone fully digital? Why do board games still get developed and made as physical products? They have all the same motivations, heck, Hasbro releases virtual monopoly and other digital board games pretty regularly... yet they also release physical board games. Why? Couldn't they have turned the board games into a subscription service and virtual game library? Are any of us considering the future where board games are no longer sold and are all virtual? IT would be more profitable than doing it to DnD, yet it hasn't happened....

 

[mamba]

So how will it stop being that product?

by moving more people away from print and onto digital. Have exclusive digital stuff: check, increase the print price but not digital: check, expand digital options (VTT, Maps): check

Will take some time, but it is clearly the direction WotC is moving in

Show me a computer game that can be played without a computer

irrelevant, you said why would anyone pick up digital D&D when they are not playing D&D already. It happens with games all the time

And do you know where the computer games are sold in those physical stores? Next to the computers.

where do you live? Most are digital downloads. I have not been in a computer store in at least 10 years, probably closer to 20, not even to get a computer…

Also, I love how you say we won't need a subscription "immediately".

do you think they will do so right away?

WoTC is supposedly making money hand over fist with the current model, they are supposedly going to make even more money by somehow forcing us all digital and THEN they will close the trap and make it a subscription service because something something it will definitely happen

yes to all of this. They make a lot of money now, going to digital will make them even more, and even optional subscriptions make them yet more

What exclusive digital content will they release for the rules of the game?

doesn’t have to be rules, so far they stuck to adventures and monsters, somewhat down the line it could be subclasses as well

And yeah, book prices increase as the prices for everything increase. And how do you know digital prices won't increase?

we just had a price increase, digital stayed the same. Not saying it will never increase, but the gap will keep widening