D&D General On Early D&D and Problematic Faves: How to Grapple with the Sins of the Past

[Reynard]

Although Herbert George had some problematic beliefs also.

Like, beyond Victorian White Guy?

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Like, beyond Victorian White Guy?

I may have been unfair but "Men Like Gods" was an unsettling read from the other side of the twentieth century, very eugenicist in its point of view.

 

[Reynard]

I may have been unfair but "Men Like Gods" was an unsettling read from the other side of the twentieth century, very eugenicist in its point of view.

They were all the rage, and not just by fascists. America loved eugenics enough to do some pretty heinous things in the name of creating a better future.

 

[Bedrockgames]

They were all the rage, and not just by fascists. America loved eugenics enough to do some pretty heinous things in the name of creating a better future.

A lot of the eugenics movement and racialist science was popular among progressives in the early 20th century

 

[UngainlyTitan]

They were all the rage, and not just by fascists. America loved eugenics enough to do some pretty heinous things in the name of creating a better future.

I am well aware, and it was bad science even then, but it fitted in nicely with dualistic views of humanity derived from class, race, or the elect and reprobate.

 

[Argyle King]

Sure but it was part of a much more dangerous context, specifically the cycle of panics about child abuse (up to and including cult sacrifice) that grip societies under particular pressures (including, but not limited to, pandemics, food insecurity, economic downturns and political instability). I do not know of anyone who lost their jobs or went to jail over the D&D part of the Satanic Panic, but a lot of young child care professionals sure did.

From my own personal perspective, I'm not sure if that type of cycle ever completely ended. The color of political tie worn by the people pushing the cycle forward may have changed, by the end results of the cycle haven't changed much. Anecdotally, being a fan of tabletop games (and video games) has been a living example of watching horseshoe theory.

On Enworld, I think that's about as in-depth as I can get with that particular assessment without running afoul of forum rules.

 

[Voadam]

but the idea that "we've always done this, so we must always do this," usually is a poor argument, and would mean that we would still be playing with cheesecake art and gendered ability maximums.

Just a nitpick, I think the gendered ability score caps shows up in only one version of D&D, 1e AD&D. It is not in OD&D, the basic line of D&D, or 2e AD&D, or later editions.

I think it is the only place you get explicit ability score caps of any kind.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Just a nitpick, I think the gendered ability score caps shows up in only one version of D&D, 1e AD&D. It is not in OD&D, the basic line of D&D, or 2e AD&D, or later editions.

I think it is the only place you get explicit ability score caps of any kind.

Honestly, I'm not sure off the top of my head. That's not something I've ever wanted to do a "deep dive" essay on.

Sounds right, but I'd probably have to go through a stack of Strategic Review and Dragon Magazines to see if it had a precursor.

 

[Reynard]

Just a nitpick, I think the gendered ability score caps shows up in only one version of D&D, 1e AD&D. It is not in OD&D, the basic line of D&D, or 2e AD&D, or later editions.

I think it is the only place you get explicit ability score caps of any kind.

Honestly, I'm not sure off the top of my head. That's not something I've ever wanted to do a "deep dive" essay on.

Sounds right, but I'd probably have to go through a stack of Strategic Review and Dragon Magazines to see if it had a precursor.

Gendered ability score modifiers are probably the least sexist of Gygax's sexism in design (not to say it isn't sexist). There are certain typical differences between men and women in physical strength, among other things, and trying to simulate that in and of itself isn't sexist. But it is flawed, because adventurer's do not represent "typical" people in any sense.

 

[Reynard]

From my own personal perspective, I'm not sure if that type of cycle ever completely ended. The color of political tie worn by the people pushing the cycle forward may have changed, by the end results of the cycle haven't changed much. Anecdotally, being a fan of tabletop games (and video games) has been a living example of watching horseshoe theory.

On Enworld, I think that's about as in-depth as I can get with that particular assessment without running afoul of forum rules.

Right, the Q-Anon panic over child abuse rings is just the most recent expression of the cycle.