D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook Reveal: "New Wizard"

"The paramount collector of spells."

Open your spellbooks, everybody. Today we get a Wizard video.


The last version of the class was in the UA Playtest 7 package (PT7). It's not clear how much they'll say here. Of the base class, I am hoping that they have recanted the level 5 ability, Memorize Spell (or perhaps shifted it to needing a short rest). They've said that the PHB will get clearer rules for how illusions work -- maybe they'll talk about that? Other than that, I think the most they can do is show us some revised spells: Will the revised version of Counterspell be kept? Any surprise Necromancy reveals? Let's find out.

OVERVIEW
  • "the paramount collector of spells": "many" of new spells are for the wizard.
  • As in PT7: cantrip change after long rest (level 1); scholar -- expertise in an academic field (at 2)
  • NO MENTION OF ARCANE RECOVERY
  • NEW: Ritual Adept broken out as a new class feature. They can cast spells in their spellbook, as before, but here ID'd as a new feature.
  • NEW: Memorize Spell at 5: you can swap a spell after short rest.
  • Each subclass gets a new version of Savant: free spells in spellbook of preferred school. 2 free spells of favored class, and a new spell for each spell level (so every 2 levels, as in the playtest. This isn't what is said in the video, but has been corrected elsewhere.
SUBCLASSES
Abjurer
  • new abjuration spells feeds back onto how subclass functions.
  • NEW: Arcane Ward at 3: resistance, immunity applied before the Arcane Ward.
  • NEW: Projected Ward a 6: your friend's resistance is applied before the ward for them.
  • NEW: Spell breaker at level 10: Counterspell and Dispell Magic are both prepared (PT7 did not include Counterspell). Dispell Magic is a bonus action.
Diviner
  • NEW: Third Eye at 10. As in PT7, bonus action to activate; 120' darkvision, see invisibility. NO MENTION of Greater Comprehension ("read any language")
Evoker -- "all about bringing the boom"
  • As in PT7: Potent Cantrip at 3 applies to cantrips both with a saving throw or an attack roll.
Illusionist -- "we felt that the subclass needed more" (YAY)
  • NEW: Improved Illusions at level 3:
    • cast illusion spells with no verbal components. (FUN)
    • illusions with range with at least 10' is increased to 60' (no-- by 60' to 70').
    • you get minor illusion cantrip, with both visual and audible
    • you cast minor illusion as a bonus action.
  • NEW: Phantasmal Creatures
    • summon beast and summon fey spells always prepared. These MAY BE changed from conjuration to Illusion, and the illusory version can be cast without expending a spell slot, but the summoned version, only with half the hit points. ONCE PER DAY.
    • illusions can step on a trap to set it off (?!)
    • (replacing Malleable Illusions, which I complained about here. This is so exciting.)
  • NEW: Illusory Self triggered by you being hit by an attack (not when you are targeted). As in PT7, you can get more uses by giving up a spell slot of level 2+.
SPECIFIC SPELLS
  • NEW: school shift to Abjuration: no examples
  • Counterspell as in PT7.
  • GUIDANCE ON ILLUSIONS in Rules Glossary. E.g. How are they affected by environment?
    • spell descriptions also clarified. Rules Glossary to be discussed in future video (also conditions, areas of effects, guidance on teleportation, telepathy, "
  • "being dead" to be discussed in Cleric Video. Tease...
So this gave much more than I was expecting, and it looks amazing. Playing an illusionist will now be much more clearly not a "mother may I?" situation, which (I feel) has long been the case. I think I got most of what I'd asked for in the PT feedback.
 

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My take. The 2024 wizard still will have more spellslots than sorcerer due to arcane recovery (sorcerer likely uses his own vastly improved metamagics).

The 2024 wizard is still the undisputed king of rituals as they can be cast if just in his spell book (no preparation needed).

Wizards still likely have a better spell list than sorcerers. This cannot be understated.

I actually think sorcerer control got buffed a lot more than sorcerer blasting. Likewise wizard blasting got a small buff, as the enhanced damage feature got moved to level 3 and is much more applicable as it affects attack and save cantrips now.

That said sorcerer subclass buffs are more substantial due to the spells known if nothing else.

In any event, the 2024 wizard will be a fine blaster. Maybe slightly worse than the 2024 sorcerer, but rituals and skill expertise should mostly make up the overall difference.
 

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There is lots of talk online about how a Wizard, if played as a control caster, outpaces everyone else. I think this got started with a Treatmonk video about God-Wizard, and I've never actually watched it, so it might be true. That being said, I've never played with such a Wizard. It is not a popular choice in my experience, and it requires a certain player mastery and knowledge of spells that most players lack and aren't quite all that interested in achieving. I do not blame them for this -- memorizing scores of spells and their interplay is only fun for some of us.
It's an artifact of how a wide array of 3.5's differences played out differently from 5e. It's not worth getting into the mechanical specifics of why it was "powerful" the dynamic that made it powerful is related to how it worked. Rather than directly stomping on monsters it worked to metaphorically crank the other PCs up past 11 on the dial & significantly defang monsters using a wide array of methods to turn monster dials down. The term "god wizard" is more of a description of how it manipulates those dials rather thana measurement of strength. One of the biggest strengths of that style of spell selection was that it was seen as polite since it could go all out to its maximum capability & nobody felt slighted like they would if a blaster or CoDzilla went all out because going all out meant the party was just extra awesome. There is a great video explaining the player to player table interactions that led to "god wizard" being tried out & eventually coined with a guide is nicely summarized in the relatively short video below

When it comes to 5e there are a wide range of mechanical differences to spellcasting & spell prep that make such a build not so fulfilling & far less effective at assisting the party. Chief among them is the overuse of concentration in nearly all of the relevant spells causing a wide gap between a caster with that style of spell choices rarely being able to deploy more than one spell at a time during a fight while a blaster could toss one out each & every round.
Does the sorcerer need to be better than the wizard in a whole pillar of the game?
You seemed to be talking about the combat pillar given most of the posts before/after it & the one you quoted, that omits a second pillar where the sorcerer's charisma primary attribute allows them to far exceed the wizard. Once again this is 5e making up for the sins of the past when charisma was less valued as a stat & overdoing it by boosting the value of charisma while practically erasing the strengths intelligence previously had.
 

Meanwhile the wizard gets rituals. And Find Familiar doesn't take a slot (and is wizard exclusive (until a warlock poaches it)) and is IME substantially better still. A flying scout whose eyes you can see through, and that has darkvision and advantage on perception checks is really useful.

I mentioned rituals, but yeah I don't think that, even with Find Familiar is as good as selecting from the Cleric and Sorcerer list or as good as Strength of the Grave and an extra Cantrip.

A Shadow Sorcerer's darkvision beats any familiar in the game and the vast majority of enemies that have darkvision and that is not even their primary 1st level ability.


But at first level Strength of the Grave is really only an unreliable casting of Shield that only partially protects you even when it works.

You only have two spell slots total at 1st level and shield is not very effective unless paired with Mage Armor, which uses one of them and if your Wizard is relying on Shield and Mage Armor at 1st level then that means they are also relying on Cantrips as well for most of their spell power and here a Sorcerer has a big advantage.

If we were talking about 3rd level or 7th level or something it would be different, but at 1st level Strength of the Grave is huge. The average enemy you will be facing does about 4 damage, meaning you need a 9 to save and have a +5 typically. Certainly it does not work all the time, but it is going to work most of the time at this level.


So I'm saying that this is at best equal to the wizard's extra spell. At later levels you can layer the two - but when you've only got two first level spells spending one on shield is expensive.

No it isn't. Shield has a straight 25% chance of preventing a hit (and going down) SOG statistically has about a 75% chance of keeping you from going down at 1st level, that is 3 times more likely to be the difference from the use itself, but on top of that it stacks with shield and does not use a reaction as well. You can use strength of the Grave on something you can't shield and then still shield the very next attack.

I mean sure, if you are going to tank your entire class going forward by picking Divine Soul (the class that doesn't know enough spells getting the "benefit" of having more spells they can't buy added to the shop is not a good benefit).

Guidance is arguably the best Cantrip in the entire game and the thing is you can get both Cleric and Sorcerer (which are mostly Wizard) spells.

The two best 1st level spells in the game are Shield and Healing Word and a Divine Soul can get them both.


I'm also going to be blunt about the first level Divine Soul played the way you suggest.
When you are unarmoured, have 6+Con mod hit points, have either a bad weapon off your secondary stat or a cantrip attack, and you are spending your two first level spell slots on Healing Word you are a terrible wannabe caster.

You are just wrong. Yo-yoing allies with healing word is probably more than anything else the most effective use of a 1st level spell in the game.

I had an 8th level party that beat Orcus, and the way they did it was by casting healing word on the Barbarian over and over until he managed to down Orcus. Now at 1st level you can't do that, but having healing word, as a bonus action way to bring up any ally is huge.

You get 3 spells on a 1st level divine soul. Usually that is going to be Bless, Healing Word and something else suitable to your specifics. Maybe sleep, maybe shield, maybe Silvery Barbs, maybe Sanctuary


Any cleric or druid worth their salt can, if they choose, match your guidance and healing word while hitting harder and being armoured and with a better primary stat for everything other than casting. Meanwhile a wizard or sorcerer who brings something like sleep can win an entire fight at level 1.

Sure, but Cleric is the most powerful class at 1st level bar none and by a pretty wide margin. This post is about Wizard vs Sorcerer though, not Cleric or Druid vs Sorcerer.

I think any decent wizard should be better than a first level Shadow Sorcerer - while the first level Divine Soul isn't competing with the wizard but failing miserably to be a cleric or druid (or even a bard).

Sure and all 4 of those are stronger than a Wizard at 1st level, including both of the Sorcerers you mention.

The exception I will make is for the Aberrant Mind. Who even gets another cantrip - but the big thing they gain is Dissonant Whispers, the strongest first level single target damage spell in the game. (It's not the 3d6 psychic damage but the opportunity attack from the raging barbarian on top of that that makes it lethal).

DW is very strong, but at 1st level because of the limited number of spell slots and hit points it is not as powerful as Healing Word at any level. In terms of offensive spells it is not as powerful as Sleep at this level.

I've played all 3 Sorcerer subclasses mentioned and at 1st level AM is the weakest of the three, despite having the most spells, most cantrips.

I'm going to disagree here. At 3rd and 4th level the sorcerer has three and four metamagic points per day.

Unless they are an Aberrant Mind twinning Dissonant Whispers or are in one of the rare situations that Subtle Spell is useful then the wizard's extra second level or two extra first level spell slots from Arcane Recovery is more useful.

Metamagic is a big deal, and 4 sorcery points means you can twin two second level spells. A 3rd level Sorcerer has two 2nd level spell slots. He can twin hold person, use flexible casting to generate another one and then twin it again in another battle. For the cost of a 1st and two second level slots he has cast Hold person on 4 enemies.

That kind of thing is a huge multiplier in combat.

Your only "low level slots" you can burn this way are second level. Your first level slots are wanted for things like Shield, Absorb Elements, Mage Armour, and Silvery Barbs, and if you can cast fireball out of it it's not low level. There aren't honestly that many spells higher level than Haste and Polymorph that are worth twinning.

I was calling "low level" anything below 6th level. At 20th level you have 2 6th, 2 7th, 1 8th and 1 9th level spell per day.

That is 43 sorcery points to twin all of those high level spells. You have 20 SPs, so you can do your highest two spells without even using a lower level slot, but yes Twinning Power Word Stun is going to be worth a 5th and 3rd level slot.

That is not all though, for a measly 1 sorcery point you can lay down Psychic Scream on top of your martials and with careful spell, and while they will take 24 damage, the enemies they are mixed up with will mostly be stunned.

I'd say at this point the sorcerer is completely out of gas. Meanwhile the Warlock has a 3d10+15 Eldritch Blast

The Sorcerer has 6d10 Firebolt on a single sorcery point and 9d10 on 3, plus the flexibility to do nearly as much with Chill Touch if they need to kill regeneration and enough Cantrips to have both of them on their list.

Also the sorcerer has a much smaller collection of fifth level appropriate spells than the warlock. The sorcerer knows only one more spell than the warlock but they need to spread them across five levels of spell. Meanwhile the warlock can retrain anything that's not appropriate.

To start with it is 6 levels of spells at 11th level, but the Sorcerer has more 5th level spells than the Warlock and better spells to boot. Animate Objects is the most powerful 5th level spell in the game.

The sorcerer can swap out spells too and if the Warlock wants to have that EB/AB effectiveness they are going to need to keep Hex on that list.

Warlock: If it's first or even second level spells you want I can do this all day. It's called Invocations. (Or for that matter Eldritch Blast is going to be at least second level equivalent). And I can do it all day as well as throwing around my fifth and sixth level spells.

The invocations are mostly once a day casts. Mage Armor and False Life being exceptions at early levels. Mage Armor is fine, but having it and 3 other slots for a day is better than being able to do it at will.

False Life 6 extra temp hit points at will is not nothing, but it is not great either

12 fireballs is rare as a use case. Especially as turning in your fourth level slots gets you less than upcasting into them would, and your fifth only get you one fireball each.

I agree, it is an example. You harped on the number of 5th level spells. The Sorcerer is usually going to be able to cast more if they want 5th level spells.

The fundamental issue the sorcerer has playing these games is metamagic conversion is lossy unless you are an Aberrant Mind. You can buy one first level spell out of second level metamagic. You can buy one fifth level spell out of a fourth and a third level slot. And you can buy one third level slot out of a fifth level slot.

Yes but you have those slots, while a Warlock does not. A Sorcerer with 8 5th level spells to cast a day is going to be able to cast more than a Warlock most of the time and cast them just as effectively. Whether that is more powerful than using metamagic to enhance a smaller number is a different discussuion.


In general the only slots that are worth trading in (as ever other than for an Aberrant Mind) are the second ones; as mentioned you use the first level slots for defence. Third level is a huge leap for Fireball or Twinned Haste.

This is not true. Twinned Psycich Lance, Twinned Power Word Stun, Twinned Irresistable Dance are all extremely powerful.

More to the point though you can Twin these spells (or Haste) without losing spell slots at all at the levels you get them.

My example was that if you want to you can twin ALL of your high level slots at 20th level and it is not alot of them. You need 23 levels of slots to do that.


The (pre-Tasha's) sorcerer knows one more spell than the warlock. And the warlock gets to fling around a variety of spells at will if they've avoided the trap invocations. The sorcerer needs to spend far more spells covering its bases than the warlock does. The diversity isn't on the sorcerer's side, and this is a flaw in the 2014 sorcerer.

The at will spells are ok, not game changers in combat though and you only have 5 Invocations at 11th level with one presumably going towards AB and another related to your pact.

They burn that slot before breakfast. They then take a short rest at breakfast and have it back because it lasts 24 hours. This is Warlock 101. When Haste starts lasting 8 hours (at third level) or 24 (at fifth) you cast it before a rest. And you have it running until you lose concentration.

I've never gamed with a group that did a Short Rest immediately following a long rest and yes you can lose concentration pretty easy at 11th level, especially since you are not proficient in saving throws.

More importantly though, your theory relies on the idea that you have a lot of 5th level slots, which if you are casting Haste or Hex for 24 hours, even if you hang on to concentration the whole day you are not getting the most effectiveness out of those slots.

yeah you have 3 5th level slots per short rest, but you are not casting banishment on 2 bad guys, you are not casting Shadow of Moil, you are not casting Hold Monster because you are holding concentration on Hex or Haste. That makes that short rest recharge much less valuable.
 

Then what is the strength and weakness of the sorcerer compared to the wizard?
I agree with Micah's post. I see no reason for a strength differential; they cast spells differently, and that's it.

I don't know why I need to keep repeating this, but the wizard has rituals.
I haven't ignored you. I mentioned rituals before; here is such an instance:

"Rituals are nice, but they are also not often part of a class fantasy, and players use them well but fairly sparingly."

I certainly won't fault you for thinking they are not cool, but they are features on their character sheet that the sorcerer doesn't have.

There is a significant difference between the rituals and what the sorcerer can do. Rituals, meant for the exploration pillar of the game, often solve things fairly quickly. Should a wizard use a ritual to go around an exploration scenario, that's a 30-second memory and it fades before the session is out. Combat tends to last long chunks of real-life time, so the differences become more ingrained in the player's mind.

This is obviously an issue on how little support the exploration pillar of the game received when compared to its combat pillar, but it is nonetheless the reality, even if a session is perfectly split between exploration/roleplay/combat. One single exploration encounter usually lasts much less than one single combat encounter.

Then the session ends, the player remembers all the nice things he got to do in combat more clearly than out-of-combat ones, which are generally remembered as collective victories (this is good and I'm glad that is the case, but it does nothing for the Wizard).

Weird that playing a book smart caster requires reading...

I have responded to this exact point before, but yes, you are right, I do think it's weird that playing the bookish character also requires you to be bookish. We make no such demands of any other class: a fighter player does not need to be athletic. It's a fantasy, if a non-bookish person wants to feel bookish for 4 hours once a week, this should be the game for that.

A casual player should get around with his prepared spells and feel like a valuable addition to the team, without also considering all other possible options. This is similar to how the Cleric or Druid player gets around and is quite valuable, and has lots of features, without needing to always consider the what-ifs of the extensive spell list.

Anyhow, maybe we are going in circles, which was never my intention.
 

It's an artifact of how a wide array of 3.5's differences played out differently from 5e. It's not worth getting into the mechanical specifics of why it was "powerful" the dynamic that made it powerful is related to how it worked. Rather than directly stomping on monsters it worked to metaphorically crank the other PCs up past 11 on the dial & significantly defang monsters using a wide array of methods to turn monster dials down. The term "god wizard" is more of a description of how it manipulates those dials rather thana measurement of strength. One of the biggest strengths of that style of spell selection was that it was seen as polite since it could go all out to its maximum capability & nobody felt slighted like they would if a blaster or CoDzilla went all out because going all out meant the party was just extra awesome. There is a great video explaining the player to player table interactions that led to "god wizard" being tried out & eventually coined with a guide is nicely summarized in the relatively short video below

When it comes to 5e there are a wide range of mechanical differences to spellcasting & spell prep that make such a build not so fulfilling & far less effective at assisting the party. Chief among them is the overuse of concentration in nearly all of the relevant spells causing a wide gap between a caster with that style of spell choices rarely being able to deploy more than one spell at a time during a fight while a blaster could toss one out each & every round.

Thank you for the video and the explanation, tetrasodium. I entered the hobby with 3e, but I was perhaps a bit too young to play it as intended or even as written in the core books, so the description of the experience then is most appreciated.

You seemed to be talking about the combat pillar given most of the posts before/after it & the one you quoted, that omits a second pillar where the sorcerer's charisma primary attribute allows them to far exceed the wizard. Once again this is 5e making up for the sins of the past when charisma was less valued as a stat & overdoing it by boosting the value of charisma while practically erasing the strengths intelligence previously had.

This is an excellent point. I had let slip because, when I DM, I tend to use the DMG's alternate rule for decoupling ability scores from proficiencies. In a game that ties these two together inseparably, the Sorcerer will have a great advantage in the roleplaying pillar as well.
 


As far as power levels

Low level Wizard starts with 3x as many spells and using rituals to conserve slots, while sorcerers barely have any SP to use. So that's a clear head start for Wizards.


And at higher level, the sorcerer will have enough spells to pick up some rituals and sacrifice their slots for lots of Metamagic, while the Wizard suffers from diminishing returns. If the last 39 spells didn't help then the 40th is not likely to make the difference.
Signature Spell and Spell Mastery don't seem like they will have much impact as you will likely end the day with unspent low level slots either way. So sorcerer reigns supreme.
 

I mentioned rituals, but yeah I don't think that, even with Find Familiar is as good as selecting from the Cleric and Sorcerer list or as good as Strength of the Grave and an extra Cantrip.

A Shadow Sorcerer's darkvision beats any familiar in the game and the vast majority of enemies that have darkvision and that is not even their primary 1st level ability.
The majority of characters have Darkvision anyway. If they already have it (because they aren't humans) then no it doesn't. Not even close at first level.
You only have two spell slots total at 1st level and shield is not very effective unless paired with Mage Armor, which uses one of them and if your Wizard is relying on Shield and Mage Armor at 1st level then that means they are also relying on Cantrips as well for most of their spell power and here a Sorcerer has a big advantage.
I'm not saying that Shield is the best first level spell for a wizard. I'm saying that Shield is comparable to Strength of the Grave for a first level wizard. If you think that Shield is not the best way of using a first level spell slot for a wizard I'd agree. And if Shield is about as strong as Strength of the Grave that means that Strength of the Grave is also not worth a first level spell slot.

Shield even cast as shield (not as another first level spell on the grounds that prevention is better than cure) has a major advantages over Strength of the Grave. It negates the entire hit rather than leaving you in a situation where you can take no more than a papercut. As a minor advantage it can fend off more than one attack. (And the "disadvantage" of Shield requiring a reaction may be more important at higher levels but is pretty trivial at first level).

So with Shield having a big advantage over Strength of the Grave I'm saying that Strength of the Grave isn't worth much more than a cast of the shield spell. Which benchmarks it. An extra casting of Sleep is better than either.

As for "relying on cantrips for most of their spell power", you only need one combat cantrip. The sorcerer is relying on cantrips for their out of combat spell power - but the wizard gets rituals as well. And here the wizard has an overwhelming advantage.
No it isn't. Shield has a straight 25% chance of preventing a hit (and going down)
Tell me you don't understand statistics without telling me you don't understand statistics. There are two legitimate ways of saying Shield's chance of success and you are wrong in both of them.
  • The first is that Shield adds five to your already 12-ish AC. If someone needed a six to hit (so 75%) then Shield would mean that they now needed an 11 (so 50%). It would therefore prevent 33% of hits. This is the appropriate way of working out the effectiveness of something like Mage Armour
  • The second is that you only cast Shield when you've seen the attack roll. If Shield wouldn't work then ... don't cast Shield. Shield therefore has a 100% reliability of negating a full hit on the times you use it.
Guidance is arguably the best Cantrip in the entire game and the thing is you can get both Cleric and Sorcerer (which are mostly Wizard) spells.

The two best 1st level spells in the game are Shield and Healing Word and a Divine Soul can get them both.
You are just wrong. Yo-yoing allies with healing word is probably more than anything else the most effective use of a 1st level spell in the game.
You are just wrong. The most effective use of a first level spell at high levels is Silvery Barbs to force an enemy to reroll a successful saving throw. It's effectively casting the spell again. Only after that are the defensive spells key, and preventing yourself from going down (especially with a sorcerer hp and armour) should be a priority as you can't protect others or stand them back up if you're unconscious. And of them Absorb Elements is probably stronger at high level than Shield (way too much elemental damage from spells and things like Dragon Breath flying around) - and as you note Shield isn't great without Mage Armour or an equivalent.

So we have five top tier first level spells, of which four are on the sorcerer spell list already. And the sorcerer only gets four first level spell slots to cast them from. And a tenth level Divine Soul knows only eleven spells plus one other first level spell from the class.

Is Healing Word great? Definitely. Is it one of the best first level spells in the game? Yes. Is it an entirely defensible choice on power grounds for a Divine Soul sorcerer to not take Healing Word? Yes; you only have so many spells known and only so many first level slots to go around. The Divine Soul will probably have Healing Word because that is part of the power fantasy of the Divine Soul
I had an 8th level party that beat Orcus, and the way they did it was by casting healing word on the Barbarian over and over until he managed to down Orcus. Now at 1st level you can't do that, but having healing word, as a bonus action way to bring up any ally is huge.
From this I've learned that you play even supposedly Int 20 monsters as complete idiots. Orcus has Chill Touch cast at seventeenth level as a cantrip and one he can use a legendary action to cast. And Chill Touch, of course, prevents healing. The only reason your party was able to beat Orcus through spamming Healing Word is because he was busy committing suicide-by-adventuring-party.
You get 3 spells on a 1st level divine soul. Usually that is going to be Bless, Healing Word and something else suitable to your specifics. Maybe sleep, maybe shield, maybe Silvery Barbs, maybe Sanctuary
You get to cast two spells in a day as a first level divine soul.
DW is very strong, but at 1st level because of the limited number of spell slots and hit points it is not as powerful as Healing Word at any level. In terms of offensive spells it is not as powerful as Sleep at this level.
Prevention is better than cure. And DW is a fight ender. If you're in a many on one beatdown it absolutely does match Sleep.
Metamagic is a big deal, and 4 sorcery points means you can twin two second level spells. A 3rd level Sorcerer has two 2nd level spell slots. He can twin hold person, use flexible casting to generate another one and then twin it again in another battle. For the cost of a 1st and two second level slots he has cast Hold person on 4 enemies.
And this is part of why the Aberrant Mind is so good. For the cost of a first level slot and one sorcery point you can Hideous Laughter 2 enemies. And on the second foe the Hideous Laughter is every bit as good as Hold Person because you can only focus fire one target at once so you just leave them to laugh.
That is 43 sorcery points to twin all of those high level spells. You have 20 SPs, so you can do your highest two spells without even using a lower level slot, but yes Twinning Power Word Stun is going to be worth a 5th and 3rd level slot.

That is not all though, for a measly 1 sorcery point you can lay down Psychic Scream on top of your martials and with careful spell, and while they will take 24 damage, the enemies they are mixed up with will mostly be stunned.



The Sorcerer has 6d10 Firebolt on a single sorcery point and 9d10 on 3, plus the flexibility to do nearly as much with Chill Touch if they need to kill regeneration and enough Cantrips to have both of them on their list.

To start with it is 6 levels of spells at 11th level, but the Sorcerer has more 5th level spells than the Warlock and better spells to boot. Animate Objects is the most powerful 5th level spell in the game.

The sorcerer can swap out spells too and if the Warlock wants to have that EB/AB effectiveness they are going to need to keep Hex on that list.
Ooh. One spell. You're playing with about ten across the offensive magic, defensive magic, exploration, and social groups. As opposed to ten split across five levels.
The invocations are mostly once a day casts. Mage Armor and False Life being exceptions at early levels. Mage Armor is fine, but having it and 3 other slots for a day is better than being able to do it at will.
Yikes! You really don't know how to play a warlock, do you? There was a very good reason that all the once a day as a spell slot casts simply got swept straight into the trash by OneD&D and not a thing of value was lost. And Mage Armour is a straight up waste of an invocation on a class that has light armour proficiency. (False Life at will is a decent use of an invocation at low level but it doesn't scale so should be traded out for something that does).

A better example of what to do with an Invocation is Disguise Self At Will. That's way better than being able to just cast it once because you can do Bugs Bunny level quick change shenanigans
I agree, it is an example. You harped on the number of 5th level spells. The Sorcerer is usually going to be able to cast more if they want 5th level spells.
And what did it cost them? Everything else. Your sorcerer at this point is pure glass cannon with the lowest hit points in the game, no armour, the lowest hit points in the game, and a tiny spell list.

The thing about how the warlock plays is that Invocations take the place of the lower level spell slots. You get fewer of them for utility (unless you're a tome lock and the DM is generous with scrolls when you can out-ritual a wizard because you can borrow cleric and even paladin rituals)
Yes but you have those slots, while a Warlock does not. A Sorcerer with 8 5th level spells to cast a day is going to be able to cast more than a Warlock most of the time and cast them just as effectively. Whether that is more powerful than using metamagic to enhance a smaller number is a different discussuion.
And again this cost them everything else. Meanwhile the warlock can probably cast six to nine fifth level spells and have decent hit points, some armour, a pact boon, and a collection of invocations that should be significantly stronger than cantrips.
I've never gamed with a group that did a Short Rest immediately following a long rest
So you've never played with a game that either (a) had breakfast after getting up or (b) set watches overnight? You might never have played with a group that bothered to claim them as rests but they've been there. It;s simply that only the warlock would bother to claim them.
More importantly though, your theory relies on the idea that you have a lot of 5th level slots, which if you are casting Haste or Hex for 24 hours, even if you hang on to concentration the whole day you are not getting the most effectiveness out of those slots.
No. "My idea" relies on knowing how and when to cast hex. That it's a glorified first level spell - and its upcast is good because of how it interacts with rest mechanics enabling a warlock to cast it essentially for free. And because you're casting it for free and because it's a glorified first level spell you don't have to be too worried about letting it drop. Hex, from level 5 onwards, isn't a full spell. It's something you use to soak a slot you wouldn't otherwise have used so you can clean out the chaff fights more easily. It provides the equivalent of a sorcery point per casting of Eldritch Blast - but you shouldn't be previous about it (and some builds never cast it at all).
yeah you have 3 5th level slots per short rest, but you are not casting banishment on 2 bad guys, you are not casting Shadow of Moil, you are not casting Hold Monster because you are holding concentration on Hex or Haste. That makes that short rest recharge much less valuable.
If you're smart you aren't casting or even learning Shadow of Moil because it's a bad spell thanks to horrible action economy. You can't use it from stealth because it makes a mess, and if you're casting it in turn one you're being foolish. Someone rating Shadow of Moil is one of my tests for whether someone's a pure theorycrafter.
 

As far as power levels

Low level Wizard starts with 3x as many spells and using rituals to conserve slots, while sorcerers barely have any SP to use. So that's a clear head start for Wizards.


femi
Signature Spell and Spell Mastery don't seem like they will have much impact as you will likely end the day with unspent low level slots either way. So sorcerer reigns supreme.
What we haven't seen is how much better the wizard spells are than the sorcerer spells. Also the sorcerer doesn't have that many spare slots, especially as the subclass only helps with L1-5 spells. To take one example of where the Wizard has a huge advantage, we can look at True Polymorph. Cast on the day it's a mid spell; it's a "turn the foe into a frog" or a souped up polymorph. Meanwhile if you get to cast it the previous day you get to turn your friend (or yourself) into an adult red dragon permanently. And then on the day you're adventuring you get to not prepare that spell as a wizard, while you've spent the past week turning your entire party into a flight of dragons; you have something like Time Stop instead. Meanwhile sorcerers can't pull this nonsense (or the Tasha's Bubbling Cauldron the previous night nonsense) as not only don't they have that many slots but True Polymorph isn't even on their list. So I'd hardly say that the sorcerer is reigning supreme against a party where everyone is an adult dragon thanks to the wizard.

Signature spell and spell mastery have been heavily nerfed of course. They have to be spells that take an action, so no more Unlimited Silvery Barbs or Unlimited Misty Step.
 

A Shadow Sorcerer's darkvision beats any familiar in the game.. Strength of the Grave
Those are subclass features. Compare it to Portent or Arcane Ward. (Both get subclass at 3, ,6, 10, 14).

Find Familiar is competing with Quicken.

Also devils sight is the best in the game. It sees through all magical darkness, not just the ones you cast.
 

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