D&D (2024) D&D species article

[CreamCloud0]

No. Not instead. In addition to. If you do it instead, you create a contradiction where your race is better at X stat than other races(special trait), yet simultaneously not better at X stat than other races(no stat bonus). You need both or a disconnect happens.

I disagree, those traits work perfectly well without the stats, any given member of a species doesn’t need to beat everyone else, so long as they’re beating anyone else who matches them statwise, an 8STR goliath’s strength isn’t negated if a 20STR halfling comes along and lifts more than them, because they’re still far outmatching an 8STR halfling and would equally outmatch the 20STR one if they did raise their STR up to match, there’s no disconnect.

 

[Minigiant]

No. Not instead. In addition to. If you do it instead, you create a contradiction where your race is better at X stat than other races(special trait), yet simultaneously not better at X stat than other races(no stat bonus). You need both or a disconnect happens.

No instead of.

This allows all members of a species to have a characteristics but individuals to be bad at it.

A STR 8 Goliath Wizard is just a weak Goliath. But he or she has the strength to lift a weight as a 16 STR human fighter.

Sorta how Guldan from Warcraft is a wimpy orc but still has ripped orc arms and legs like a lightweight boxer.

 

[Minigiant]

A 14 and 18 are not a significant difference. Not in 5e anyway. The difference is two hits every 20 swings, which for the bulk of play since most games never get to 10th level, means 2 extra hits spread over 4-5 combats. You're never even going to know they happened. The +2 to damage is likewise insignificant. 5e monsters are bloated bags of hit points, so the piddly extra damage to the hits you get during a combat aren't going to have a noticeable effect unless the DM tells you.

Stat bonuses are hugely overrated in 5e, probably for two reasons. 1) past editions. Up to 5e, the treadmill meant you needed all of those plusses just to stay even. 2) humans liking bigger numbers. Humans liking bigger numbers is the reason why the news always tells you that your chances of a heart attack have doubled, rather than tell you that your chances went from .001% to .002%.

Yes all of this is true.

+2 doesn't mean much. It takes 20 rolls to see the 2 times it matters. It only matters in the high attacks and high damage addition. Common of previous editions. Really only 2e, 3e, and 4e.

5e doesn't get to those ranges until you get to very high level or high optimization.

 

[Zuranthium]

A 14 and 18 are not a significant difference. Not in 5e anyway.

Hence changing the rules. Something that could have been done in a new edition. I disagree to begin with that it's not significant:

The difference is two hits every 20 swings. You're never even going to know they happened. The +2 to damage is likewise insignificant.

That isn't accurate. If you need to roll 13 to hit, there's 40% chance. Giving +2 attack roll means the chance becomes 50%, which is a 25% increase in landed attacks. The difference is felt and it becomes increasingly more important the harder it is to hit an enemy. If you need to roll a 19 to hit, then +2 attack has increased your chances from 10% to 20% - your chance has DOUBLED, you are hitting twice as often.

2 damage is not insignificant either. People like doing as much damage as possible.

humans liking bigger numbers

Yeah but so what? In this context it doesn't matter why something is important to a person, just that it is. People like to feel they've maximized their chances, that their character is the best at something. To feel they are the sneakiest sneak possible. The highest damage dealer possible. Casting the most amount of spells. Similar to athletes winning by .01 - doesn't matter about the margin, they did it.

A STR 8 Goliath Wizard is just a weak Goliath. But he or she has the strength to lift a weight as a 16 STR human fighter.

That's not a good way to go about it. Things should be designed around the stats themselves, so that modifications to stats become impactful. Like for example a +4 strength spell or -4 weaken spell.

 

[Minigiant]

Hence changing the rules. Something that could have been done in a new edition. I disagree to begin with that it's not significant:

But like I explained.
That would massively increase complexity.


Changing ability modifiers from linear to an exponential increase would require fans to do exponential calculations or look up charts with every adjustment.

That's not a good way to go about it. Things should be designed around the stats themselves, so that modifications to stats become impactful. Like for example a +4 strength spell or -4 weaken spell

See above.

+4 Strength spells with nonlinear ability mods is a QUICK way to sell no boooks.

 

[mamba]

That's not a good way to go about it. Things should be designed around the stats themselves, so that modifications to stats become impactful. Like for example a +4 strength spell or -4 weaken spell.

a factor around the stats is still designed around the stats. The -4 STR drops the carrying capacity of the Goliath by twice as much as for a human, the other effects are the same, so not sure how that makes it less impactful

 

[Remathilis]

Bringing things back to species, anyone else disappointed Aasinar were just MotM but more flexible version instead of more like the Tiefling with lineage options?

Actually no.

Tieflings and elves already both have the "lineage is just different bonus spells" design. Aasimar/ardling would have been a third built on the "you gain X cantrip, Y spell at 3rd and Z spell at 5th" system.

Further, aasimar's iconic ability is its wings. You'd have to figure out how to incorporate them into the mix and going by elf and tiefling, lineage spells don't leave much power budget for other things.

So, no I don't want all the planetouched species to be the same chassis with different spells. I like the aasimar is different and kinda wish elf and tieflings felt more different. Cie la vie.

 

[Maxperson]

I disagree, those traits work perfectly well without the stats, any given member of a species doesn’t need to beat everyone else, so long as they’re beating anyone else who matches them statwise, an 8STR goliath’s strength isn’t negated if a 20STR halfling comes along and lifts more than them, because they’re still far outmatching an 8STR halfling and would equally outmatch the 20STR one if they did raise their STR up to match, there’s no disconnect.

The traits work well as a type of strength representative, but create a disconnect if you don't have a stat bonus. Also, your specific example of the halfling and goliath is irrelevant. These are racial bonuses, not individual ones. If the race as a whole is stronger, it has to be represented in all ways strength is represented in the game or you have created a contradiction which causes a disconnect.

Having the trait only works if you have no numerical stats. Once you add in numerical stats to represent strength, a stronger race needs to be stronger in that way as well.

 

[Maxperson]

This allows all members of a species to have a characteristics but individuals to be bad at it.

Dude. So does having strength bonuses. Specific examples are irrelevant, since they can happen even if your goliath has +2 to strength. Your individual can still have as low as a 5.

We are discussing racial bonuses, not bob the goliath bonuses. If the race is stronger, it needs to be represented in all ways strength is represented in the game, or you have created a contradiction where the race is both stronger and not stronger simultaneously, which is nonsense.

 

[dave2008]

If the race is stronger, it needs to be represented in all ways strength is represented in the game, or you have created a contradiction where the race is both stronger and not stronger simultaneously, which is nonsense.

That is not completely true in an RPG that is abstract like D&D. IRL there are different kinds of strength and a simple stat doesn't really convey that well. What you can do with that strength is important and not all things equally strong (same stat) can do the same things with that strength.