D&D (2024) Command is the Perfect Encapsulation of Everything I Don't Like About 5.5e

[EzekielRaiden]

For all the people that follow the so called "rule of cool" for what PCs can command an NPC to do, do the NPCs have the same option? If you can ask a monster to "jump" meaning they jump off a cliff, can an NPC caster do the same to a PC?

Because I've long had the policy that whatever the PCs do, so can their enemies. That's one of the reasons I prefer a more limited list, having been on the receiving end of what I felt was pure abuse of a first level spell.

My players generally are dealing with creatures or people who use skills the players don't have direct access to. Cults and hidden black dragons and insular death-druids don't tend to share their secrets with others. And, likewise, the magic and skills they've acquired are often special, allowing them to do stuff forgotten by the modern day or developing a new branch of magic.

That said, I do emphasize to my players that they reap what they sow. It's one of the reasons they aren't murder-hobos. They try to follow laws, because law enforcement actually works with them (even if it is imperfect and at risk of corruption at times). They show mercy to their enemies, because mercy is both morally right and NOT subject to "no good deed goes unpunished". Etc. As a result, instead of viewing things in a ruthless, mercenary, exploitative way, they work with me. They think about the consequences of their actions, short, medium, and long term, ask good questions, and really try to do the wise thing, not just the thing that gets them the most benefit right away and damn the consequences.

As a result, I am free. I can use the Rule of Cool for both players AND opponents. I can deploy enemies that do crazy and cool stuff and make memorable encounters that people talk about literal years later with a smile.

But this is only possible because NPCs and PCs work by different rules; because I don't use death as a main consequence, but rather consequences much more meaningful and personal and motivating; because I spend almost all of my GM energy working as hard as I can to earn, and retain, my players' genuine and heartfelt enthusiasm for the game; and because I (as GM, not necessarily as the characters I play) am always honest and above board with them.

My players know where I stand, and know that I have their back. The single greatest goal for me is for them to enjoy the process of playing to find out what happens, to enjoy facing difficult challenges and overcoming or at least struggling past them. My players are essentially always excited to see where the next session goes, so I think I've done a good job.

 

[Belen]

Seriously. I just didn’t buy the game. I didn’t send Hasbro hate mail.

I mean, I complained here before and just after it came out but Then I moved on and switched to PF1e. I became a PF advocate where I had previously served as an official WOTC rep and went around the community teaching D&D.

Prior to 4e, I bought everything WOTC released and afterwards, nothing. I guess they lost several thousand a year from me and PF gained it and I switched to teaching PF.

WOTC got me back with 5e.

I feel no regret if folks like me got them to course correct.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Don't worry, I have enough regret for both of us for the 'correction'.

 

[ECMO3]

And 5e DMs on this very forum have made very clear they think the Rule of Cool is not only a bad idea in general, but something they personally oppose heartily. I love the Rule of Cool.


I have had one 5e DM who does that. My current one, Hussar. As with most things, in my experience, 4e DMs were much more copacetic with players doing creative things not explicitly covered by the rules than 5e DMs have been; because they could trust the rules to work when used, they were confident about doing other things when the rules weren't used. By comparison, with 5e being so wild and woolly and difficult to predict, I find even experienced 5e DMs give a chary eye to anything too "creative", because they don't know what consequences it might have and don't want to set a bad precedent they'll have to reverse later.

ok, different strokes. The DMs I play with don't do that (or more accurately the DMs I choose to keep playing with)

For me when I DM rule of cool there are a few guidleines:

1. Is it completely OP? Probably once if it is super fun and creative, depending on how game breaking it is. Then never again.

2. Is it silly and stupid and moderately powered? If so definitely once. Example - summon a Rhinoceros 60 feet above the bad guy so it falls on him.

3. Is it moderately balanced or underpowered and not going to devolve into stupidity? Spam it and have fun.

4. Is it flavor only? All the time. - Example we had a Chainlock and a Wizard in a game I played and the Wizard made a point to try to convince the Chainlock's Pseudodragon that he would be better off with the Wizard. The Chainlock player played along so in terms of flavor it was like his familiar was constantly evaluating leaving the Warlock. This is objectively against the rules due to the wording of the spell and in play the Warlock player still had complete 100% control of the familiar. But at night the familiar and Wizard would scheme and the Wizard would point out how he left you out there to die in this battle ..... It was really fun.

 

[mamba]

I've watched a few in the last 20 min. Mostly click baity whining.
I call flag on the play every time someone uses the "OGL" as a reason to leave D&D. The OGL problem didn't actually happen.

clickbaity whining is a given, as to the OGL, whatever your stance on what happened is, it won't be that it is proof that 5e is hard to DM...

 

[mamba]

It will effect content creators and hangers on...but not the end user.

who do you think the content creators are creating the content for?

 

[ECMO3]

For all the people that follow the so called "rule of cool" for what PCs can command an NPC to do, do the NPCs have the same option? If you can ask a monster to "jump" meaning they jump off a cliff, can an NPC caster do the same to a PC?

Yes and no.

As a DM if it is something that will get a laugh sure. If it is an exploit designed to kill or punish a PC for a playstyle I don't like or to get "revenge" for an anti-climatic RAW one-shot on my climax encounter, probably not.

 

[KYRON45]

who do you think the content creators are creating the content for?

Did you not read or just ignore the rest of the statement? Most people are the end user. We weren’t affected.

 

[KYRON45]

clickbaity whining is a given, as to the OGL, whatever your stance on what happened is, it won't be that it is proof that 5e is hard to DM...

I’ve never stated that anything was hard to Dm.

 

[Lanefan]

Most of the bathos joeks are supposed to be in-character too. And personally I'm sick and tired of seeing in all media the fear of comittment, the constant winking to the audience and laughing that anyone could take it seriously are insulting. The normal in-character jokes I can stand, but I'm sick of bathos for next 10 years.

"Bathos" - the term keeps coming up but I've no idea what it means.

As for commitment, that's what keeps me showing up each session week after week and year after year. But as I said before, while what happens in-character can be taken seriously, it certainly doesn't have to; and I'll add that if your game sometimes includes elements of PvP (mine does!) where the characters could be double-crossing each other or getting violent with each other etc. then taking it seriously is anathema to anyone having a good time.

Characters are there to be both laughed with and laughed at, if you ask me.