D&D General Deborah Ann Woll Teaches Jon Bernthal D&D

[Snarf Zagyg]

I swear this thread is reminding me of this great reenactment of a trial deposition:

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I'm not entirely clear on the conclusion you're drawing here and I don't want to misunderstand- it seems like you're saying that any game inspired by D&D is D&D, even if it's made by other people. Does genre or ruleset make something different enough that it isn't D&D?

Knave! and Into the Odd could trace their lineage back to D&D and share the fantasy genre- are they both D&D?

Star Wars Saga Edition was made with d20 rules which were originally D&D rules, so when you're playing Star Wars you're actually playing D&D?
d20 Modern- that was made with D&D rules, even closer than SW:SE. You're playing D&D, not d20 Modern?

The last two examples are very close in system, but pretty different in genre- I'm curious how far of a connection you'd make between any other TTRPG and D&D, considering that D&D was a foundational ruleset for TTRPGs which many other games have since sprung off of, or been inspired by, even if they lack genre or rules in common.

I guess the question is where do you draw the line, since you say that any game made with D&D rules = D&D variant = D&D?

I mean to say, in a tongue in cheek kind of way, that 3rd party 5E sourcebooks are D&D. They can have different flavors, sure.

Tales of the Valiant and A5E are essentially 5E D&D clones that pretty much use the same core rules engine (with variations, sure). They even capitalize on the similarities and are designed to be able to be used as sourcebooks. I can use those products in a D&D 5E game.

DAW can praise D&D all she wants because it means that much to her. She can even own 3rd party products, or other games, and there is nothing wrong with her saying that D&D is the greatest of all time if she wanted. It's her opinion. It's valid.

You can say a different product is the greatest of all time. And you will be right. For you. It's ok.

 

[Distracted DM]

I mean to say, in a tongue in cheek kind of way, that 3rd party 5E sourcebooks are D&D. They can have different flavors, sure.

Tales of the Valiant and A5E are essentially 5E D&D clones that pretty much use the same core rules engine (with variations, sure). They even capitalize on the similarities and are designed to be able to be used as sourcebooks. I can use those products in a D&D 5E game.

DAW can praise D&D all she wants because it means that much to her. She can even own 3rd party products, or other games, and there is nothing wrong with her saying that D&D is the greatest of all time if she wanted. It's her opinion. It's valid.

You can say a different product is the greatest of all time. And you will be right. For you. It's ok.

Shhh... don't tell anyone, but any game made with D&D rules is pretty much a D&D variant/clone, and all D&D is D&D, even if a 3rd party wrote it or if a particular individual isn't fond of its presentation.

OK so I think you kind of addressed my question with the first sentence: to your mind, as a TTRPG player, all 3rd party books that use the 5e system are D&D... I guess you only count that if they're of the fantasy genre?
A5E is D&D to you, but what about the Voidrunner's Codex? That's a new A5E supplement except it's scifi. Is that also D&D?

 

[Clint_L]

It makes perfect sense for her to have said in the context of the podcast, and I think she was right to do so. It also makes perfect sense that some people would find that statement off-putting despite that context, and it’s perfectly reasonable for people who did to express that feeling in this context - a forum dedicated to discussing RPGs.

I just don't agree with your second point. Everyone who has watched the video can see that she's gushing about something that made a big difference in her life. She's not making a point by point critical analysis of D&D and why it is objectively superior to other TTRPGs; she's expressing her own passion.

If someone finds that off-putting, the problem is them, not her. Like, Taylor Swift is not my jam particularly, but when my young friend, which is a massive Swiftie, waxes effusive about her, I don't find it off-putting. I'm happy that she gets such joy from the music. It obviously speaks to her. Context matters, and similarly this is someone responding emotionally to something that is important to them.

I don't care what game she is praising. Let her have her joy. It's wholesome, not off-putting.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

OK so I think you kind of addressed my question with the first sentence: to your mind, as a TTRPG player, all 3rd party books that use the 5e system are D&D... I guess you only count that if they're of the fantasy genre?
A5E is D&D to you, but what about the Voidrunner's Codex? That's a new A5E supplement except it's scifi. Is that also D&D?

You're really trying to pin me down in the weeds for a tongue in cheek comment.

I gave an updated opinion, clarifying how I felt about 3rd party D&D clones and supplements.

Your pushing for more, asking me to go beyond the bounds of my clarification, for... genuine curiosity about my opinion? Looking for something to agree or disagree with, or pick apart? I'm genuinely curious if I should have any interest in pursuing this line of questioning. What is your next question if I say yes or no?

 

[Charlaquin]

I just don't agree with your second point. Everyone who has watched the video can see that she's gushing about something that made a big difference in her life. She's not making a point by point critical analysis of D&D and why it is objectively superior to other TTRPGs; she's expressing her own passion.

If someone finds that off-putting, the problem is them, not her. Like, Taylor Swift is not my jam particularly, but when my young friend, which is a massive Swiftie, waxes effusive about her, I don't find it off-putting. I'm happy that she gets such joy from the music. It obviously speaks to her. Context matters, and similarly this is someone responding emotionally to something that is important to them.

I don't care what game she is praising. Let her have her joy. It's wholesome, not off-putting.

I think you might be misunderstanding me. I don’t think she shouldn’t have said it or shouldn’t have expressed that passion. I just don’t think the feelings of people who had a visceral negative reaction to hearing it are invalid, or that those people are “super weird” for expressing those feelings here. Isn’t that what forums like this are for? To express our thoughts and feelings about roleplaying games?

It’s ok to disagree with the sentiment that “D&D is the greatest game ever created,” and for it to feel uncomfortable to hear someone say, only citing things that are also true of the game(s) you prefer when elaborating on why it’s so great. And to express feeling that way does not inherently mean one isn’t letting her have her joy, it’s just… saying you felt a way about a thing she said. But, like, do keep in mind that, in this context, of course she wasn’t going to say that the game(s) you prefer are better than D&D, or talk about anything much more specific than “it allows you to create stories together” and “it helped me deal with my anxiety.” It is possible to recognize that both things are true and valid. What she said was appropriate for the context of where she said it, and saying you didn’t like hearing it anyway is appropriate to do here. Everything’s cool, we don’t need to be calling each other weird for having completely normal emotional reactions to things.

 

[Azzy]

Why am I not surprised that what looks to me as something purely wholesome has engendered such negativity.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I think you might be misunderstanding me. I don’t think she shouldn’t have said it or shouldn’t have expressed that passion. I just don’t think the feelings of people who had a visceral negative reaction to hearing it are invalid, or that those people are “super weird” for expressing those feelings here. Isn’t that what forums like this are for? To express our thoughts and feelings about roleplaying games?

It’s ok to disagree with the sentiment that “D&D is the greatest game ever created,” and for it to feel uncomfortable to hear someone say, only citing things that are also true of the game(s) you prefer when elaborating on why it’s so great. And to express feeling that way does not inherently mean one isn’t letting her have her joy, it’s just… saying you felt a way about a thing she said. But, like, do keep in mind that, in this context, of course she wasn’t going to say that the game(s) you prefer are better than D&D, or talk about anything much more specific than “it allows you to create stories together” and “it helped me deal with my anxiety.” It is possible to recognize that both things are true and valid. What she said was appropriate for the context of where she said it, and saying you didn’t like hearing it anyway is appropriate to do here. Everything’s cool, we don’t need to be calling each other weird for having completely normal emotional reactions to things.

So... it's ok for a person to have a negative reaction to one person's comments...

...and it's not ok to have a negative reaction to another person's comments?

Alright. As long as we understand the rules.

 

[Charlaquin]

So... it's ok for a person to have a negative reaction to one person's comments...

...and it's not ok to have a negative reaction to another person's comments?

Alright. As long as we understand the rules.

Sorry? Who’s comments did I say it’s not ok to have a negative reaction to…?

 

[overgeeked]

What I’m saying is, “D&D” being* the generic term doesn’t equate to it cannibalizing the hobby

No, the use of the phrase doesn’t equate to that. But D&D is cannibalizing the rest of the hobby.