D&D General Dragonborn Physical Features

[Scribe]

I can appreciate when someone nerds out over something.

 

[Vaalingrade]

@Mecheon dragons are "nothing like lizards" in the same way than the pegasi are nothing like horses.

More like 'nothing like lizards' in the same way they're nothing like anything in Earth's fossil record and we should probably stop trying to compare them to such because they're fantastic superbeasts.

And pegasus is the son of a snake-haired woman's neck stump, which is rarely the circumstance of a horse's birth.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Feels like that's the Orc niche, or Goliath niche just as much as it is the Dragonborn niche.

orcs are the tribal guys, dragon born in 4e wanted their old empire back.
goliath are insufficiently built for a clear role to appear beyond the strong guys

 

[Crimson Longinus]

If a dragon was just a winged lizard we wouldn't be having this discussion but, they're not even built like lizards. Physically they're nothing the same? They're more like dinosaurs if anything, and if you say dinosaurs are lizards? That is wrong in every sense of the word. Dinosaurs are achosaurs, not squamates.

Like. Okay. Lizards, right? One half of squamates, along with snakes. Here's a bunch. You'll notice their legs always have that bent thing to them and go off to the side. Lizards physically cannot hold their bodies that high off the ground. Modern lizards have what we call a sprawling posture, which you can see in them given the way their legs sprawl to the side.

You may argue crocodiles but! Crocodiles aren't lizards. They're archosaurs. They're closer relatives of birds than lizards. So we can disregard crocodiles entirely because we're talking Lizards.

Here's the most recent dragon artwork. You'll notice dragons do not sprawl. Dragons have tall, pillar-like erect legs that go under them. This is not the condition that lizards have.

Which of these three leg postures looks more like that of a dragon's stance? Lizards only have the one of the left, and I'd argue the middle and right ones are closer to how dragons are portrayed. That isn't a lizard like stance. Therefore? Dragons aren't lizards.

The only way 'dragons are just winged lizards' works is if you disregard the artwork and lore entirely. Crocodiles are not lizards. Dinosaurs are not lizards. Turtles are not lizards. Dragons are not lizards. Heck, even D&D back in 2E said they're closer to dinosaurs and equates dragonkin like Hydras to being 'crocodile like', which puts them squarely outside of lizards entirely

I know all this, but you're approaching this from scientific perspective, not from casual impressions perspective. Yes, taxonomically dinosaurs are not lizards, yet most people think them as "giant lizards" and the name literally means "terrible lizard." People no not know the difference between lizard and reptile, and most have not even heard of archosaurs. And as much I actually like the sort of geekery your posts are getting into,* that is not the level of detail most people apply to fantasy. Like I said, dragons and pegasi are hexapods, so realistically obviously could not be related to Terran reptiles or equines.

* And yes, for my own setting Artra, I try to make the taxonomy to make a little bit more sense, and you're right that dragons are more like dinosaurs. In my world I've made them explicitly dinosaur-like. They of course still are not realistic, as even though they've four limbs, they also can fly despite their size, have breath weapons and are magical and telepathic.

Artran dragon.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

It largely depends on the individual person's lore. Some dragons might be related to lizards and snakes, others might be related to archosaurs, such as dinosaurs and pterosaurs (easier to explain with 4 limbed dragons than 6 with limbed dragons). And then others might have them as purely magically created beings, either through experimentation, divine intervention, or part of the fundamental formation of the world. There is no right answer here.

I'm using dragons which would be placed within Varanoidea, but then an act of magic caused them to become what they are now. I'm also using 4 limbed dragons though, as I'm not a fan of 6 limbed tetrapods.

 

[Vaalingrade]

We really need to stop the D&D player urge to remove the 'fantasy' from this Fantasy Roleplaying Game.

Also the Roleplaying and the Game, but that's a different thread.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

We really need to stop the D&D player urge to remove the 'fantasy' from this Fantasy Roleplaying Game.

Also the Roleplaying and the Game, but that's a different thread.

Sure. It is just that tits on dragons in not necessarily the sort of "fantasy" I want to associate with RPGs.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

We really need to stop the D&D player urge to remove the 'fantasy' from this Fantasy Roleplaying Game.

Also the Roleplaying and the Game, but that's a different thread.

Nothing wrong with some people preferring a more internally consistent world with more scientific rules and less pure fantasy. Different people just enjoy different things.

Nothing needs 'stopping'. There isn't any harm to the rest of the DnD community if one player group decides not to have boobs on dragons.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Sure. It is just that tits on dragons in not necessarily the sort of "fantasy" I want to associate with RPGs.

We left dragon boobs a long while back trying to make them lizards.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Nothing wrong with some people preferring a more internally consistent world with more scientific rules and less pure fantasy. Different people just enjoy different things.

Nothing needs 'stopping'. There isn't any harm to the rest of the DnD community if one player group decides not to have boobs on dragons.

Trying to make dragons sad reptiles is just a microcosm if this trend of making D&D less fantastic unless there's a wizard dancing about waggling their fingers and hips while chanting nonsense to make it happen.

And it's getting canonized in the game where there's no longer supernatural powers, just more spells.

It's gotten so bad that people are insisting fantasy=magic and fictional also equals magic.