D&D General D&D 2024 does not deserve to succeed

[Micah Sweet]

Regardless of whether D&D2024 deserves to succeed or not, it's the 800 pound gorilla in the industry and it can produce substandard adventures, rule book, etc with little consequence. It's unfortunate, but it's the reality of a business that dominates an industry.

Complexity is personal taste, but when most people get introduced to something new, complexity can be a turnoff. It's typically when someone has been doing an activity for a while that they desire more depth of experience.

IMHO, it seems that ShadowDark is the only new game that has any potential staying power. Although, I don't see it growing beyond niche.

What do you mean by new, and what do you mean by staying power? Are you expecting every game that's been released within a certain recent time frame that isn't 5.5 or Shadowdark to fail?

 

[Mallus]

Good luck tilting at D&D! Say hi to Dulcinea and Rocinante for me.

Also, maybe reconsider starting off with “what’s good for the gaming community…”.

 

[Belen]

People like different levels of complexity. It's a turn-off to you, but that's not nearly so generally true as your statement suggests.

It is fine to be complex. I backed Level Up and its follow ups. I probably would not run it. I’d play it but since I am always a DM, then I am stuck.

It is not a game I’d like to run because of the complexity.

The point I am others are making is that complexity is often great for experienced players but a turn off for new or casual players.

When I was a hardcore ENWorld, game day nut, I loved it. I was very active here and in the community.

The complexity burned me out and then I had kids and life changed. Less complex is great when you have limited time and just want to play D&D.

I think casuals are a majority.

 

[mamba]

They had a simple weapon mastery that just changed the damage dice. Playtesters screamed how it was inferior to others and it got pulled. Once again, the fans prove that simplicity is not as big a draw as they claim it is.

maybe they should have added one that does +2 damage instead of just throwing it out. Once again WotC proves that they are not really interested in improving things by iterating on ideas, they just look for a quick approval to make sure they do not accidentally build the next 4e

 

[Retreater]

I'm sure Morrus would market more widely if he had WotC's marketing budget. Where do you see RPGS that aren't D&D marketed?

Somehow Dragonbane ended up in the background of a Publix commercial.
I'm obviously engaged with the hobby, so I see them promoted on forums, conventions, YouTube, Facebook.
And I feel like it's my responsibility as a fan to tell my friends about new games and promote them to my players.

 

[mamba]

Some features in 5e are simple and easy to understand when used at a table. However, some 5e features are complex enough in that they bring up debates between it being a RAW or a RAI rule in the forums.

not sure that is a matter of complexity and not of clarity of the rule. Most discussions I see revolve around vague or plain wrong language, not around people unable to follow well written instructions

 

[Micah Sweet]

It is fine to be complex. I backed Level Up and its follow ups. I probably would not run it. I’d play it but since I am always a DM, then I am stuck.

It is not a game I’d like to run because of the complexity.

The point I am others are making is that complexity is often great for experienced players but a turn off for new or casual players.

When I was a hardcore ENWorld, game day nut, I loved it. I was very active here and in the community.

The complexity burned me out and then I had kids and life changed. Less complex is great when you have limited time and just want to play D&D.

I think casuals are a majority.

And that's fine, but @Zardnaar claimed that complexity was a turn-off without qualification. I'm not about to let that stand without challenge.

 

[mamba]

when you said "better", did you actually mean, "better for drawing in non-gamers", or ,"better at maximizing profits"?

the two sound like they are heavily correlated

 

[Micah Sweet]

Somehow Dragonbane ended up in the background of a Publix commercial.
I'm obviously engaged with the hobby, so I see them promoted on forums, conventions, YouTube, Facebook.
And I feel like it's my responsibility as a fan to tell my friends about new games and promote them to my players.

I feel the same way. Maybe I should be talking about Level Up more...

 

[Micah Sweet]

the two sound like they are heavily correlated

What I meant was. Is it one of those things (which I agree are correlated), or does better mean something else? I know those aren't my definitions of "better".