D&D (2024) Ranger 2024 is a bigger joke than Ranger 2014:

[UngeheuerLich]

what if you do not want HM to be your fallback position?
why not give same amount of bonus 1st level spell slots for RANGER spells only?

Or just Cure wounds?
That is always useful. Maybe not as fun or exciting, but everyone usually takes damage during the day.

We had the same discussion: what if I don't want to be the healer...

 

[ECMO3]

That's not hindered by hunter's mark either.

If you compare it to the TCE Ranger it is hindered considering the abilities they lost or that are delayed.

If there was a wizard class or subclass that had half their class features designated to a single spell or a handful of spells then I'd question why you choose that class if you refused to use those spells as well.

I am still playing a Ranger as the first character I am starting since the 2024 rules were published, but I am disappointed.

And if all 4 of the Wizard's CLASS abilities centered around one spell (not a handful of spells ONE) many, many people would be disappointed at that too.

If they made it a handful of spells, or any Ranger spell (like the Wizard's class abilities which work for any Wizard spell), I don't think people would be nearly as upset.

 

[TiQuinn]

yes it is.
but that is not the point.

point here is mandatory usage of HM or wasting your class resources pool.

Wotc: you will cast Hunter's mark
player: but I want to cast entangle extra few times per day
Wotc: I SAID HUNTER'S MARK!
Players: but I'm 5th level and I want to concentrate on Summon animal...
Wotc: I just gave you 3rd use of Hunter's Mark. HUNTER'S MARK! YOU MUST COMPLY!

Different person, different problem? The person I responded to was saying he couldn’t accomplish those things with another class. The things you’re stating most certainly can.

 

[CreamCloud0]

We had the same discussion: what if I don't want to be the healer...

Why is it different that you don’t want free castings of cure wounds pushing you into a certain playstyle than when we don’t want free castings of hunter’s mark doing the same thing?

 

[CreamCloud0]

Different person, different problem? The person I responded to was saying he couldn’t accomplish those things with another class. The things you’re stating most certainly can.

Accomplish with what other class? Did i miss the second primal halfcaster in ‘24 that isn’t shackled to HM?

 

[TiQuinn]

Accomplish with what other class? Did i miss the second primal halfcaster in ‘24 that isn’t shackled to HM?

Wait a second. Are you Horwath? Are you a tag team or something?

Are you ignoring one another and not able to see that I’m responding to two separate people?

 

[CreamCloud0]

Wait a second. Are you Horwath? Are you a tag team or something?

Are you ignoring one another and not able to see that I’m responding to two separate people?

no i can see them, mine and their views just align on this particular topic and you seem to be commenting on both our messages, but you said 'the person i responded to said they can't accomplish that with another class', and the message horwath had commented on was your response to my comment.

i had also been told 'if i don't like ranger being 'hunter's mark: the class' i could just play another class and be happy with reflavouring things' even if that was or was not you who was the one who specifically said that to me it's the same sentiment.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Why is it different that you don’t want free castings of cure wounds pushing you into a certain playstyle than when we don’t want free castings of hunter’s mark doing the same thing?

That was not serious. I would not complain about free healing. I just don't get your complains.

 

[TiQuinn]

@CreamCloud0 - so let me catch you up to what I’m seeing…

i want to play The Ranger Class, i don't want to use hunter's mark, since 2014.

What’s your idea of a Ranger class and how is it not accomplished by one of the other classes?

my idea of ranger is a martial using, stealth capable, primal halfcaster. it is not accomplished by anything to do with hunter's mark.

Is the ranger not a half caster and Hunter’s Mark not a martial spell that gives you extra damage?

And then Horwath chimed in with their two cents which I don’t necessarily immediately attribute to you. What Horwath suggested (extra spells, extra castings) is a Druid. Or a Ranger that multi-classes Druid or Cleric. Easily attainable.

What I’m not understanding is your position.

 

[FrogReaver]

Why is it different that you don’t want free castings of cure wounds pushing you into a certain playstyle than when we don’t want free castings of hunter’s mark doing the same thing?

Free castings of one spell doesn't lock you into a single playstyle. If Ranger's only got Hunter's Mark or if Hunter's Mark was by far the absolute best Ranger Spell in nearly all circumstances then i'd be with you, but that's not the case.

Consider, back in 2014, Necromancers got tons of buffs for necromancer spells, but they didn't always use them. Evokers got tons of buffs for evocation spells, but again, they didn't always use them. Life Clerics got buffs to healing spells, they didn't always use them.

The only thing I can conclude is that for some, building a ranger that didn't use hunter's mark ever had become their preferred Ranger identity. But IMO, lack of hunter's mark should never be an identity defining feature in the first place.