D&D (2024) Ranger 2024 is a bigger joke than Ranger 2014:

[CreamCloud0]

Free castings of one spell doesn't lock you into a single playstyle. If Ranger's only got Hunter's Mark or if Hunter's Mark was by far the absolute best Ranger Spell in nearly all circumstances then i'd be with you, but that's not the case.

Consider, back in 2014, Necromancers got tons of buffs for necromancer spells, but they didn't always use them. Evokers got tons of buffs for evocation spells, but again, they didn't always use them. Life Clerics got buffs to healing spells, they didn't always use them.

The only thing I can conclude is that for some, building a ranger that didn't use hunter's mark ever had become their preferred Ranger identity. But IMO, lack of hunter's mark should never be an identity defining feature in the first place.

no, it doesn't lock you into a single playstyle, but when the baseclass dedicates a non-negilible chunk of it's new class budget to a previously entirely optional spell it kinda sucks when it's an ability you never had any interest in which also impacts how your character plays while in use taking up your concentration slot.

like buying a vegetarian vouchers for a steakhouse and wondering why they're not grateful.

 

[FrogReaver]

what if you do not want HM to be your fallback position?

What if you don't want arcane recovery on your wizard?

why not give same amount of bonus 1st level spell slots for RANGER spells only?

Because one of the biggest 2014 complaints was Rangers not scaling damage in t3 and t4. Giving rangers hunter's mark and features that buff it allow for that damage scaling which addresses or at least tries to address the 2014 issue. Giving Rangers any spell doesn't.

Giving ranger's a big damage buff outside a concentration spell simply makes hunter's mark non-viable late game. Which is bad for Ranger players that want to use hunter's mark. And giving rangers class features that buff a spell they may not even have, is even worse.

Now, there are 1 million different ways they could have changed things, but the point is that the more free form changes on their own that some would have preferred don't actually address the 2014 Ranger issues everyone kept talking about.

Or just Cure wounds?
That is always useful. Maybe not as fun or exciting, but everyone usually takes damage during the day.

People didn't complain about 2014 Ranger's not healing enough...

 

[FrogReaver]

no, it doesn't lock you into a single playstyle, but when the baseclass dedicates a non-negilible chunk of it's new class budget to a previously entirely optional spell it kinda sucks when it's an ability you never had any interest in which also impacts how your character plays while in use taking up your concentration slot.

like giving a vegetarian vouchers for a steakhouse and wondering why they're not grateful.

But that's what I keep coming back to. The spell isn't entirely optional anymore, you have free castings of it, so use them. The only reason to complain about that seems to be that for you the Ranger's identity has to include no-hunter's mark ever, and that's the part that's hard to make sense of.

 

[CreamCloud0]

That was not serious. I would not complain about free healing. I just don't get your complains.

Well can you blame me for not catching your sarcasm, it’s not like ‘I don’t want to be shoehorned into being the designated healer purely by my class choice’ has been an uncommon argument over the years.

 

[FrogReaver]

If you compare it to the TCE Ranger it is hindered considering the abilities they lost or that are delayed.

What specific features are you talking about?

I am still playing a Ranger as the first character I am starting since the 2024 rules were published, but I am disappointed.

And if all 4 of the Wizard's CLASS abilities centered around one spell (not a handful of spells ONE) many, many people would be disappointed at that too.

I'm not saying whether you should be disappointed or not, that's a personal thing. What I am asking for is justifiable reasons to be disappointed and so far the common refrain boils down to, 'i might sometimes need to cast hunter's mark and i don't want to'.

Maybe the question about the TCE features will help address this.

If they made it a handful of spells, or any Ranger spell (like the Wizard's class abilities which work for any Wizard spell), I don't think people would be nearly as upset.

I think there's only a small handful that are.

 

[CreamCloud0]

What if you don't want arcane recovery on your wizard?

Isn’t it weird how the difference is that arcane recovery isn’t limited to giving you extra uses of a predetermined spell that was never your choice to take?

But that's what I keep coming back to. The spell isn't entirely optional anymore, you have free castings of it, so use them. The only reason to complain about that seems to be that for you the Ranger's identity has to include no-hunter's mark ever, and that's the part that's hard to make sense of.

im more than happy for HM to be an optional part of their identity and toolkit FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO PICK IT, my issue is they don’t give us a choice, or to swap it for anything else, how is that such a complicated position to comprehend?

I hate this ‘it’s free, so you can’t complain about getting it’ mentality, because it’s not free, not really, it used up part of my class budget that i now cannot use on anything else.

 

[FrogReaver]

2024 Ranger Features breakdown (non hunter's mark enhancements).

Favored foe is now free casts of hunter's mark - I like this change much better than previous favored foe style abilities
Deft explorer is default now - expertise in a skill and 2 languages
Roving is +10ft speed, climbing and swim speed equal to your speed
Expertise in 2 more skills
Tireless is d8+wis temp hp wis mod time per long rest and can decrease exhaustion by 1 on a short rest
Nature's Veil is bonus action invisible till end of next turn wis mod times per long rest
Feral Senses is Blindsight 30 ft

That's a pretty solid set of non-hunter's mark features.

It's a good enough list of abilities to make fighters envious.

 

[FrogReaver]

Isn’t it weird how the difference is that arcane recovery isn’t limited to giving you extra uses of a predetermined spell that was never your choice to take?

im more than happy for HM to be an optional part of their identity and toolkit FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO USE IT, my issue is they don’t give us a choice, or to swap it for anything else, how is that such a complicated position to comprehend?

Kind of like arcane recovery isn't optional. That's what makes it hard to comprehend. All classes get abilities that you don't get a choice about. This is literally the same as any of them. You just don't like what this non-choice ability does.

I hate this ‘it’s free, so you can’t complain about getting it’ mentality, because it’s not free, not really, it used up part of my class budget that i now cannot use on anything else.

Again, same thing for any other class ability that doesn't give you a choice. Ties up class budget that you can't use on anything else. It's one of the given cons for all the pros that class based games provide.

 

[Minigiant]

im more than happy for HM to be an optional part of their identity and toolkit FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO USE IT, my issue is they don’t give us a choice, or to swap it for anything else, how is that such a complicated position to comprehend?

I hate this ‘it’s free, so you can’t complain about getting it’ mentality.

I thought about it.
And

They couldn'tgive a choice without creating new spells.

Whatever spells they gave for free at level 1 would need a buff at level 13as level 1 spells at level 13 ware weak.
BUT
None of the current 1st level 5e Ranger spells share language.

There's no language to buff 2 different 1st level Ranger spells with 1 sentence.

Paladins have Searing Smite, Thundering Smite, and Wrathfull Smite.

Hail of Thorns, Hunter's Mark, and Zephyr Strike have different wordings.

They'd have to create Beastmaster's Mark and Gloomstalker's Mark to share language and give a choice.

 

[FrogReaver]

I thought about it.
And

They couldn'tgive a choice without creating new spells.

Whatever spells they gave for free at level 1 would need a buff at level 13as level 1 spells at level 13 ware weak.
BUT
None of the current 1st level 5e Ranger spells share language.

There's no language to buff 2 different 1st level Ranger spells with 1 sentence.

Paladins have Searing Smite, Thundering Smite, and Wrathfull Smite.

Hail of Thorns, Hunter's Mark, and Zephyr Strike have different wordings.

They'd have to create Beastmaster's Mark and Gloomstalker's Mark to share language and give a choice.

It's also interesting that no one complains about the always prepared divine smite spell and free cast of it that paladins get now

Also the same as the Paladin's faithful steed ability which gives a free cast of find steed and makes it always prepared...