D&D (2024) Ranger 2024 is a bigger joke than Ranger 2014:

[UngeheuerLich]

2nd level is good choice,
Action surge is not really valuable at 2nd level, so 1st you get damage riders, then you get action surge.
3rd level is 2nd level fighter, 1st level ranger,
HM->TWF->Action surge, that is 4 attacks in 1st round for 2d6+3 damage.

also ranger provides you with extra skill and 2 more masteries.

2nd level means you are behind for every level thereafter.

But I guess, with dual wielding and hunter's mark, the fighter might probably keep up just enough to be ok at level 4/1.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It's not just action economy. It's the CONCENTRATION economy. The fact that Horizon Walker and Beastmaster, subclasses built around spending their bonus action every round already, get screwed over hard by HM is just icing on the cake.

You know, you don't have to use a bonus action every round for hunter's mark.

If it has to be their class feature, you'd imagine it should work with the rest of their class features, yeah. A Barbarian is not prevented from Reckless Attacking if they Rage, sort of a deal.

A paladin also has some serious bonus action troubles. I guess that is balancing the half casters against non casters.

Which is actually needed. If you don't care about balance, just make hunter's mark free.

If 90%+ of play happens at levels that are not in that range, then yes, we can.

Ranger is doing very well at those levels. I would be more worried about level 11+.

As I said, for the lousy capstone, the quick fix of finally removing concentration should be more than enough to keep the ranger competitive.

 

[Horwath]

2nd level means you are behind for every level thereafter.

But I guess, with dual wielding and hunter's mark, the fighter might probably keep up just enough to be ok at level 4/1.

yes, 5th level at 4/1 might be pain, but 6th level at 5/1 will be a lot better and with ranger features you will not miss that one feat there.

 

[Horwath]

You know, you don't have to use a bonus action every round for hunter's mark.

hopefully...

A paladin also has some serious bonus action troubles.

you get one instance of smite per long rest. with no need to switch it later.
one Bonus action per day without concentration is OK as a mandatory feature.

I guess that is balancing the half casters against non casters.

maybe. maybe they overdid it with paladin smite. Once on your turn would be enough to keep it balanced.

Which is actually needed. If you don't care about balance, just make hunter's mark free.

free of concentration for rangers only.

Ranger is doing very well at those levels. I would be more worried about level 11+.

As I said, for the lousy capstone, the quick fix of finally removing concentration should be more than enough to keep the ranger competitive.

still it is a sad capstone, and waiting 19 levels for that is just an insult.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

hopefully...

you get one instance of smite per long rest. with no need to switch it later.
one Bonus action per day without concentration is OK as a mandatory feature.

maybe. maybe they overdid it with paladin smite. Once on your turn would be enough to keep it balanced.

free of concentration for rangers only.

still it is a sad capstone, and waiting 19 levels for that is just an insult.

Nope. This capstone is very good then. Do the math. As I said, probably I'd also allow casting as a free action without any components at that point. So it is just always up. (Which translates to always advantage and always +2d10 to + 5d10 damage)

 

[UngeheuerLich]

yes, 5th level at 4/1 might be pain, but 6th level at 5/1 will be a lot better and with ranger features you will not miss that one feat there.

The fighter will probably fetch GWM on top of polearm mastery though. I guess it will be a wash at that point. I guess the single class fighter is ahead if you have many short rests.

 

[FrogReaver]

You know, you don't have to use a bonus action every round for hunter's mark.

A paladin also has some serious bonus action troubles. I guess that is balancing the half casters against non casters.

Which is actually needed. If you don't care about balance, just make hunter's mark free.

Ranger is doing very well at those levels. I would be more worried about level 11+.

As I said, for the lousy capstone, the quick fix of finally removing concentration should be more than enough to keep the ranger competitive.

I think it’s a valid point that some ranger subclass features often require a bonus action while main class features also require one. (Beastmaster is a prime offender here).

Paladins for example solved this by having the bonus action requirements of many subclass features removed.

That said, just removing bonus action or concentration unbalances the whole (assuming the whole was balanced to begin with - which until shown otherwise is probably a fair assumption).

Essentially if you remove bonus action and concentration requirements then you really need to lower what other bonus action and concentration abilities are capable of.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think it’s a valid point that some ranger subclass features often require a bonus action while main class features also require one. (Beastmaster is a prime offender here).

Paladins for example solved this by having the bonus action requirements of many subclass features removed.

That said, just removing bonus action or concentration unbalances the whole (assuming the whole was balanced to begin with - which until shown otherwise is probably a fair assumption).

Essentially if you remove bonus action and concentration requirements then you really need to lower what other bonus action and concentration abilities are capable of.

Only at the capstone. Not before. And maybe you need to actually keep it at d6 or d8 then.

Before that, concentration is actually needed.

 

[FrogReaver]

Only at the capstone. Not before. And maybe you need to actually keep it at d6 or d8 then.

Before that, concentration is actually needed.

Again, assuming it was balanced before with concentration then taking concentration away and keeping at d6 will still be much stronger, which means unbalanced if balanced before.

If it wasn’t balanced before then show it wasn’t first.

 

[mellored]

THE other 1st level feature.

Level 1 ranger has more spells than anyone else.