D&D (2024) Buffing Int, Wis, and Cha (Mostly Int and Cha)

[GrimCo]

Honestly, i don't know. Wisdom is god stat among mental stats cause of perception skill and passive perception, plus numerous spells that target will.

High int giving extra language, sure. Even extra int based skill is ok. But tools, don't know. Are there any tools that use int?

Charisma is good as is. Few charisma based skills and charisma mod are essentially whole social pillar mechanics wise.

To get more out of mental stats, we would need more robust mechanical social interaction subsystem.

 

[Horwath]

alternate solution.

3 mental stats are too much.

merge it into two.

Willpower:
Casting stat for all classes,
Saving throw for current Int, Wis and Cha saves

Cunning:
bonus languages, tools or weapons
bonus skills,
skill bonus to all current Int, Wis or Cha skills

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The only thing really needed is remembering that influence and study actions are a thing.

Noone asks the players to play out the sword fight. So allow players to actually roll to influence NPCs and draw conclusions or remember something important sometimes.

That does not mean, having people start with 2+int modifier languages instead of flat 3 won't be a great thing.

 

[Stalker0]

I've done rules that allowed for int OR dex to apply to initiative. That helped some but mainly just made wizards really fast.

 

[Baron Opal II]

I use Charisma for Contacts, people that have the inside line on something and willing to do you a solid once in a while. Also covers the "there's friends, and then there's friends with shovels" concept. It also gives means for hench should players want to go that route.

A bit more esoterically, I use Charisma as a measure of self-identity. The stronger your Charisma it implies a stronger ego and truename.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Problem with balancing stats, is that each class has a POWER STAT... and Charisma casters are already goddamn powerful (and with easy multiclassing with each other). And Wizards are just Wizards. But Int/Charisma are really useless if you're not one of those casters.

So you would need to outright block those classes from getting any benefits from the core stat, because you need to pump it pretty high to make it worthwhile to others. Otherwise you're just buffing the already strong classes further.

But I do actually miss balancing out my Int based on my skill point considerations in DnD3e/PF1e... It felt nice to have a reason to have Int 12 on a warrior type.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I don't think Charisma needs much help, it's the premiere skill for an entire pillar of the game.

And usually you only need one person to handle that entire pillar, while the rest of the party are mute.

Sure, that's not how it usually ends up playing out, just because players rarely want to be quiet in the corner like that, but that is the optimal play the rules encourage. 'I know trying to talk my way inside this mansion is really important for my character, but if I just wait a few hours to go fetch our Bard, my chances go from low to automatic, so...'

you can easily dump Charisma and just let others do all the talky talky stuff - but I don't see anyone regretting having high Charisma since it lets you shine in social encounters

I dunno, it feels really bad to be the second-best at something, when the system only cares about who has the highest score.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

3 mental stats are too much.
merge it into two.

I really like this. Then we fuse Con with Str, and boom, much easier to silo things (and saves!).

 

[FrogReaver]

Treantmonk just added True Strike as a "critical" spell for a ranged rogue, and shifted their main stat to Intelligence with that change. Not sure how I feel about that, as a Dex rogue seems very iconic to me. But, it does make for an interesting rogue focused on Int.

Such a rogue will probably have defensive problems and will miss out on feats like sharpshooter (or give up a damage scaling asi for it in the leveling process).

For damage it’s good though.

 

[Horwath]

I really like this. Then we fuse Con with Str, and boom, much easier to silo things (and saves!).

that is my idea:

STR: current str and con saves, melee and thrown attack/damage, armor limit, Athletics, carry capacity,
DEX: current dex saves, AC, initiative, ranged and finesse attack/damage, Acrobatics, Stealth, Sleight of hands,

CON is deleted, everyone calculates HP with +2 per level.

every class gets one saving throw proficiency.
resilient feat gives one also.

STR: barbarian, fighter,
DEX: bard, ranger, rogue, monk
WILL: cleric, druid, paladin, sorcerer, warlock, wizard