D&D General Of Consent, Session 0 and Hard Decisions.

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And how exactly do you think that analogy translates to a game you're running? Players don't get to pick and choose what they experience at your table, they all have to dine on the same meal.

Long term group we have a group chat.

I'll think up 5 or 6 themes and they get a month or so to talk it over usually before the game wraps up.

Newbie players get the let me know if anything specific offends you.

Once my short game wraps up in a session or three we'll have that conversation again. I'll prep about 6 months in advance. Eg I'm running an adventure next week I selected in December.

Keeping it simple I'll probably offer sonething like.

1. Keep going to level 4+.

2. Start over another beginner set eg LMoP.

3. Start over actual campaign.

Before they've even joined the table though already gone over things via PMs.
 

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The problem is what counts as a jerk.
Really? Because I think that's pretty obvious to the vast majority of people: Coercive, Abusive, Exploitative.

Coercive players are forcing others to do what the coercive player wants, against the other players' wills. This is where you see things like "oh lighten up, it's just a joke" or "c'mon, it'd be fun!" when it would only be fun for that person.

Abusive players are hurtful to others, or knowingly and intentionally breaking the spirit of the game. The former is personal abuse, and generally quite obvious. The latter may or may not be obvious at first, but it becomes pretty obvious with time. E.g. the player who immediately rolls to attack whenever they "get bored."

Exploitative players take valid or existing elements (rules, principles, gentleperson's agreements, etc.) and twist them into grotesque shapes purely because they can. As an example, I don't use permanent and irrevocable and random death in my games. I had someone on this forum (semi-facetiously) say that he would treat that as an invitation to constantly do suicidal things, because his character wouldn't be able to die. That's clearly exploiting GM goodwill ("I won't take your character away due to Random BS", more or less) in order to get a ridiculous advantage.

And yeah I've seen people try and veto whatever and weaponize it. You also hear about it online I'm not to worried about that.
Okay. Such things are exceedingly, overwhelmingly rare. As in, you're literally the only person I've ever heard of who has actually had to deal with that.

The weaponization is almost never a problem. Genuinely. You have encountered one of the 0.1% of problems, while there's a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE swathe of problems where a DM sprang something deeply unpleasant or even traumatizing on a player.

Using food allegory if I'm feeding a crowd I wouldn't serve up seafood or vegan across the board. I would include those options.

Generally I'll book somewhere with a large menu.
Sure. That's the ideal. The ideal is not always possible. Sometimes, you have to make one dish that has to please everyone. It is simply being considerate to ask new guests if they have any dietary restrictions when you invite them to your house. It is rude to the point of active malice to say, "We ARE eating peanut shrimp and steaks, I don't care if you're allergic or vegan or Jewish or Muslim, you'll eat it or you'll go hungry." Of course, in many cases, what actually happens is not that, but rather that the DM thought to surprise their players with something exciting and perhaps a little provocative, but instead accidentally traumatized one or more players, much as serving a delicious peanut-shrimp curry would be a pretty raw deal for a Jewish/Muslim/Vegan guest and genuinely inedible for someone allergic to peanuts or shellfish. Hence, having the tool of asking for dietary restrictions when deciding what homecooked meal to make for new guests you've never entertained before.

It's all about being respectful to one another, and leveraging that respect productively so everyone--GM and player alike--can move forward comfortably and confidently, knowing that the way is clear. The X-card (and its counterpart, the O-card) allow GMs to push envelopes without risk of upsetting players. Lines and veils empower GMs to focus on things they know will be well-received even if they're dark or scary or gross or whatever, while avoiding the things that would unequivocally always be a fun-ruiner for one person (and, thus, often a fun-ruiner for the whole table.)

You act like this is nearly always used as a cudgel to beat people with. It isn't. 99.9% of the time, it is used with care and only leads to more respect, more friendliness, more mutual support. That's what all of this is for: to help people communicate with one another about stuff that can be really really hard to talk about, because nobody wants to be a party pooper but simultaneously nobody wants to be subjected to trauma while trying to enjoy a fun pretend elfgame with friends.
 

Up to a point but if everyone's chosen to dine on seafood the campaign won't be appropriate.
Food analogies suck because a good host would watch for the one person who won't dine on seafood and get them something else.

I am reminded of the episode of the Office when Michael tries to raise morale by throwing a birthday party for Meredith and buys an ice cream cake for her, which Meredith can't eat because of a dairy allergy. Michael was so engaged in fulfilling his own desire his favorite type of dessert he doesn't bother to see if the person the party is for wants it.

Sometimes a DM gets so into their own game idea they forget to see if the players will like it too. Like Michael, they are catering to their own needs and ignoring the other players neeeds. While everyone else might enjoy ice cream cake, nobody wants to go to a party where they can't eat the cake (especially if its THEIR birthday) because nobody asked if they could.

That's basically how I see safety tools. They tell me not to get an ice cream cake if there's a dairy allergic person. There is no part of my game that is so sacrosanct that I can't adjust it to accommodate a request. I'm lucky my players have no issues with my game style, but if one did I'd find a compromise.
 

Food analogies suck because a good host would watch for the one person who won't dine on seafood and get them something else.

I am reminded of the episode of the Office when Michael tries to raise morale by throwing a birthday party for Meredith and buys an ice cream cake for her, which Meredith can't eat because of a dairy allergy. Michael was so engaged in fulfilling his own desire his favorite type of dessert he doesn't bother to see if the person the party is for wants it.

Sometimes a DM gets so into their own game idea they forget to see if the players will like it too. Like Michael, they are catering to their own needs and ignoring the other players neeeds. While everyone else might enjoy ice cream cake, nobody wants to go to a party where they can't eat the cake (especially if its THEIR birthday) because nobody asked if they could.

That's basically how I see safety tools. They tell me not to get an ice cream cake if there's a dairy allergic person. There is no part of my game that is so sacrosanct that I can't adjust it to accommodate a request. I'm lucky my players have no issues with my game style, but if one did I'd find a compromise.

It's basically why I choose places with diverse menus.

I don't like seafood but like curry. I'm not going to book a curry place to dine at.
 

Really? Because I think that's pretty obvious to the vast majority of people: Coercive, Abusive, Exploitative.

Coercive players are forcing others to do what the coercive player wants, against the other players' wills. This is where you see things like "oh lighten up, it's just a joke" or "c'mon, it'd be fun!" when it would only be fun for that person.

Abusive players are hurtful to others, or knowingly and intentionally breaking the spirit of the game. The former is personal abuse, and generally quite obvious. The latter may or may not be obvious at first, but it becomes pretty obvious with time. E.g. the player who immediately rolls to attack whenever they "get bored."

Exploitative players take valid or existing elements (rules, principles, gentleperson's agreements, etc.) and twist them into grotesque shapes purely because they can. As an example, I don't use permanent and irrevocable and random death in my games. I had someone on this forum (semi-facetiously) say that he would treat that as an invitation to constantly do suicidal things, because his character wouldn't be able to die. That's clearly exploiting GM goodwill ("I won't take your character away due to Random BS", more or less) in order to get a ridiculous advantage.


Okay. Such things are exceedingly, overwhelmingly rare. As in, you're literally the only person I've ever heard of who has actually had to deal with that.

The weaponization is almost never a problem. Genuinely. You have encountered one of the 0.1% of problems, while there's a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE swathe of problems where a DM sprang something deeply unpleasant or even traumatizing on a player.


Sure. That's the ideal. The ideal is not always possible. Sometimes, you have to make one dish that has to please everyone. It is simply being considerate to ask new guests if they have any dietary restrictions when you invite them to your house. It is rude to the point of active malice to say, "We ARE eating peanut shrimp and steaks, I don't care if you're allergic or vegan or Jewish or Muslim, you'll eat it or you'll go hungry." Of course, in many cases, what actually happens is not that, but rather that the DM thought to surprise their players with something exciting and perhaps a little provocative, but instead accidentally traumatized one or more players, much as serving a delicious peanut-shrimp curry would be a pretty raw deal for a Jewish/Muslim/Vegan guest and genuinely inedible for someone allergic to peanuts or shellfish. Hence, having the tool of asking for dietary restrictions when deciding what homecooked meal to make for new guests you've never entertained before.

It's all about being respectful to one another, and leveraging that respect productively so everyone--GM and player alike--can move forward comfortably and confidently, knowing that the way is clear. The X-card (and its counterpart, the O-card) allow GMs to push envelopes without risk of upsetting players. Lines and veils empower GMs to focus on things they know will be well-received even if they're dark or scary or gross or whatever, while avoiding the things that would unequivocally always be a fun-ruiner for one person (and, thus, often a fun-ruiner for the whole table.)

You act like this is nearly always used as a cudgel to beat people with. It isn't. 99.9% of the time, it is used with care and only leads to more respect, more friendliness, more mutual support. That's what all of this is for: to help people communicate with one another about stuff that can be really really hard to talk about, because nobody wants to be a party pooper but simultaneously nobody wants to be subjected to trauma while trying to enjoy a fun pretend elfgame with friends.

That's the problem with lists. Dont be a jerk don't roll play a jerk.

You've got your big obvious ones that are mostly theoretical.

There's a large Grey area of less obvious stuff that may or may not be aggravating.

Seen some crazy stuff a lot of that was years ago or on the MtG side of things.
 



Abusive players are hurtful to others, or knowingly and intentionally breaking the spirit of the game. The former is personal abuse, and generally quite obvious. The latter may or may not be obvious at first, but it becomes pretty obvious with time. E.g. the player who immediately rolls to attack whenever they "get bored."
The bolded might be various annoying things but "abusive" is not one of them.
 



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