D&D (2024) Are we going to see DMG previews?

[EzekielRaiden]

And yet here they are, continuing to pour money into WotC's coffers for a decade on a game that, according to you, they have difficulty with and are thus unhappy about. If the WotC-paying public can't be bothered to examine why they are struggling and instead keep paying out, what possible motivation does WotC have to do things differently?

And now you see a big part of why I am so frustrated with the current state of affairs. D&D is the only game in town. Nothing else could ever possibly threaten it.

have you read any of them, you might be in for a surprise… sure, it gives some guidance (and no rules) but the PHB is definitely more important, even to a DM

I have read several (3.5e, 4e, 5e). Not cover to cover, mind, but I have read large portions of all of them. I absolutely think the 4e DMG was more important to DMs than the 4e PHB--because it was exceptionally well-written and gave actually useful tools and guidance.

sorry what? how is that DM empowerment?

How does it not? That's literally what the DM Empowerment crowd has been calling for for 15+ years. Rules that don't matter, because the DM can do whatever they want, whenever they want, for as long as they want. That's--allegedly--what empowers DMs. All those icky gross rules just "get in the way."

 

[Oofta]

And now you see a big part of why I am so frustrated with the current state of affairs. D&D is the only game in town. Nothing else could ever possibly threaten it.

D&D is more popular. That doesn't mean other games don't exist. You may not be able to find people to play your preferred game, but there's no reason to believe that would necessarily change if D&D had never existed.

I have read several (3.5e, 4e, 5e). Not cover to cover, mind, but I have read large portions of all of them. I absolutely think the 4e DMG was more important to DMs than the 4e PHB--because it was exceptionally well-written and gave actually useful tools and guidance.


How does it not? That's literally what the DM Empowerment crowd has been calling for for 15+ years. Rules that don't matter, because the DM can do whatever they want, whenever they want, for as long as they want. That's--allegedly--what empowers DMs. All those icky gross rules just "get in the way."

A handful of DMs make significant changes. The vast majority make a couple of minor tweaks here and there, if that. There are a fair amount of things that are left up to DM and group discretion because the rules are flexible. That doesn't mean the rules don't exist.

 

[SteveC]

What I've heard about the DMG is that there will be some interesting essays by celebrity DMs, which is interesting, and it will have magic items. Outside of that I expect there will be the short optional rules that I hope will see some work. They've said the book is more organized for new DMs

If you don't want or need the magic items and aren't a newbie DM, not sure why you'd need the book. I expect I will buy the Foundry version, include the magic items in my compendium, and never look at the other content.

 

[mamba]

How does it not? That's literally what the DM Empowerment crowd has been calling for for 15+ years.

sorry, having to fix rules shortcomings is not DM empowerment… DM empowerment is having a great set of rules and guidelines (encounter building, etc.) that work and then say ‘the DM is the ultimate arbiter and the DM can declare what things exist / do not exist in their game’

Making the DM the copyeditor is pretty much the opposite of that

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I know, but I do not see being sold out in 2-3 weeks as low sales, obviously no idea what kind of sales you were expecting but to me that sounds pretty good.

What? When did I say that it had "Low Sales"? I'm pretty sure that I've been crowing about how well it's doing.

The one week was for the DMG with people now being aware of it coming rather than being surprised to see it when walking into your store.

I don't think that will happen, but okay.

Maybe they also were not aware that FLGS get the book two weeks earlier than the ‘official’ release date and they were surprised by that

Yeah, that happened too. Strangely, even from people who preordered it, that we contacted on the 3rd and said, "We have it here for you now!" and then they didn't come in to get it for 2 weeks.

Maybe people are just too distracted by modern life to pay attention to a game, and there's not much that I (or WotC) can do about it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

What I've heard about the DMG is that there will be some interesting essays by celebrity DMs, which is interesting, and it will have magic items. Outside of that I expect there will be the short optional rules that I hope will see some work. They've said the book is more organized for new DMs

If you don't want or need the magic items and aren't a newbie DM, not sure why you'd need the book. I expect I will buy the Foundry version, include the magic items in my compendium, and never look at the other content.

I can't tell you how little interest I have in what celebrities, quasi- or otherwise, think about D&D and DMing. That is a worse waste of space to me than extra full-page artwork would be, and you all know I don't see fancy art as a priority.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

sorry, having to fix rules shortcomings is not DM empowerment… DM empowerment is having a great set of rules and guidelines (encounter building, etc.) that work and then say ‘the DM is the ultimate arbiter and the DM can declare what things exist / do not exist in their game’

Making the DM the copyeditor is pretty much the opposite of that

Then 5e should not be hailed as the triumph of "DM Empowerment" the way it has for literally an entire decade.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Then 5e should not be hailed as the triumph of "DM Empowerment" the way it has for literally an entire decade.

Similar to what I said to @tetrasodium in another thread,* I feel that you undermine your otherwise fair criticism of the game with the way you phrase it. There's certainly plenty of room for improvement re: DM empowerment in 5e - especially in certain areas, but rather than speaking of how you'd like to see it improved (and perhaps, how to do it), you've thrown some pretty exaggerated accusations at the edition as a whole - and for that, you're receiving pushback from people that would probably otherwise be your allies.

*The two of you should get together and make a thread that speaks to solutions and calls out the trouble-spots more specifically, with why they are bad for the game and what things would be better. Man, I'd participate in that.

Edit: After posting the above, I went to the other thread that I mention above, and it looks like the convo is going in that direction, but maybe not quite how I imagined. Still, it's a worthwhile convo to have, IMO.

 

[Oofta]

Then 5e should not be hailed as the triumph of "DM Empowerment" the way it has for literally an entire decade.

What's your point? Rules matter, at the same time DM makes rulings all the time. Sometimes it's just not all that important and in order to game to keep the game moving I make a call. In other cases a target DC is up to the DM based on the specifics of the scenario. How far can they go on a side note, I wonder if the 2024 DMG will give more examples and guidance on this.

There is certainly less "Thou must play this way" that we had in previous WotC versions of D&D where it felt like they were trying to lock things down to a tournament type play. But that doesn't mean I, and every DM I've ever had, don't refer to and use the rules straight from the book the vast majority of time.

They just acknowledge that you can't have rules that cover everything without a different level of abstraction than what D&D assumes. So yes, sometimes the DM makes a call on the DC of that athletics check to jump the chasm if the PC can't do it automatically based on the long jump rules. Other times the DM may let a PC swing from the chandelier even if there are no specific rules for doing so.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

sending DnDShorts anything is a weird choice by itself

No, it just shows that they're looking at audience numbers and that's it. Getting the word out about the new PHB through someone with 400,000 subscribers and who would almost certainly say something nice about the book -- it's hard to argue that the layout, organization and new player onboarding aren't miles better -- is a pretty simple choice.

This board is the nexus of hatred for D&D Shorts. Outside of some of the folks at ENWorld, no one else views him as the devil.

And his videos about the new PHB have been exactly what you'd expect from his channel (and not the ENWorld discourse about it): "these new PHB subclasses are kinda crazy though," "the new best paladin in D&D," "every rule change you should use from the new PHB." Exactly what WotC expected and wanted from their preview copies going out into the wild.