D&D (2024) Thief Rogue / True Strike

[fluffybunbunkittens]

The rules are clear - Loading only prevents firing multiple pieces of ammunition from a single Action

Yep, and if the GM was being weird about your crossbow shooting again like that, then you can introduce them to the much dumber option of you putting crossbow1 away as part of the attack action, and use your object interaction to draw crossbow2, so then it's ready to fire...

 

[Oofta]

Not sure what the question is. You can only get sneak attack once per turn. True Strike is an action, not a bonus action. True Strike just replaces strength or dex attack modifier with your spell attack modifier and it takes an action to cast, not a bonus action.

Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting. The attack uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity. If the attack deals damage, it can be Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type (your choice).​

In addition, about the only time rogues didn't get sneak attack is if they had disadvantage for some reason in games I've seen. With Steady Aim they almost always have advantage to hit to boot.

I must be missing something.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

You can only get sneak attack once per turn.

Yes, that's not the question, because they're happening on different turns.

True Strike is an action, not a bonus action... it takes an action to cast, not a bonus action.

Not for a Thief/Wiz1 with a holster full of scrolls it doesn't.

 

[pukunui]

I must be missing something.

What you're missing is the Thief's 3rd level Fast Hands feature, which allows them to "take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action" as a bonus action.

 

[I'm A Banana]

As explained in the first post, Thief casts it from a scroll as a bonus action, leaving you free to use your action to Ready.

Now, this does not actually lead to twice the damage, but it is more damage.

I just treat Thief as the default Rogue subclass now, because it's fun and effective, when most of the others are neither.

Eh, there's some debate in that reading.

Fast Hands lets you take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires the action as a bonus action.

A spell scroll itself doesn't require you to take the Magic action to use it. It requires that you "cast the spell using its normal casting time." That does mean you have to take the Magic action, but it's not required by the scroll, it's required by the spell itself.

It's not unreasonable to argue that this means it de facto requires you to take the Magic action, but the wording of both spell scrolls and the Magic action are pretty ardent that the casting time of the spell is the time it takes to cast the spell.

I wouldn't let Fast Hands let you cast spell scrolls as a bonus action. Pretty clearly not RAI, even if it is debatable RAW.

Though, yeah, still not the end of the world if your interpretation differs and you want to allow wizard/rogues to cast cantrip scrolls as a bonus action. Still such a great effort for such a small win.

 

[mellored]

I think you may have missunderstood?

this isn't about getting sneak attack every round (something that should be almost a given given all the ways you can get one). Rather it's about a specific subclass getting TWO sneak attack/round.

Rogues could always sneak attack twice, usually with Haste or Command, but also with different magic items.


I do think Conjure Minor Elemental + Valor Bard + Eldrich Blast (+ Haste + Quicken + Action Surge) is an oversight.

But still better than 2014 level 2 Moon Druid, Force Cage + Sickening Radiance or Simulacrum army.

 

[mellored]

Not for a Thief/Wiz1 with a holster full of scrolls it doesn't.

Thief 3 / wizard 1

 

[Oofta]

Yes, that's not the question, because they're happening on different turns.


Not for a Thief/Wiz1 with a holster full of scrolls it doesn't.

You can't use a scroll with a bonus action because the rules state "Casting the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal casting time."

Even if you could, it's still just delaying the attack to another turn by taking the ready action. Again, I don't see why it helps. True strike doesn't grant advantage so it doesn't guarantee sneak attack. It's less useful than using a bonus action to hide and ready a ranged attack.

So I still don't see the point. True strike doesn't guarantee sneak attack, you can't cast it as a bonus action off a scroll, ready is still an action.

 

[ECMO3]

By utilizing Magic Initiate with True Strike, Thief Rogues have very reliable sneak attack damage, though it is not game breaking by any means. This would eventually require a level dip into wizard so you can use the scroll, but I think most thieves will end up doing this anyways.

Bonus Action: True Strike scroll for sneak attack

Hold Action: Trigger True Strike after your turn or an ally’s turn for another sneak attack

Having an owl find familiar also makes advantage a bit easier to obtain.

My only question is about how crossbows loading interacts in this scenario because I’m not sure an equivalent has existed so easily before. RAW I know you can only do the Attack with an Action once with crossbows because of Loading, but the rules are not clear on what happens with an Action and a Bonus Action that both use a crossbow while also both being the Magic action.

It is ok but not great. It is a way to get 2 sneak attacks a round, but tier 1 and 2 the damage from sneak attack is not overwhelming. At tier 4+ this starts to be a big deal, but there are lots of other ways to do it at that level.

You are also giving up your action, your bonus action (cunning action, steady aim, using a wand, or a different scroll) and your reaction (uncanny dodge or defensive duelist) to pull off 2 attacks on a class that has a high bonus action and reaction opportunity cost.

I think the real cat's meow for a Rogue is a 2-level Warlock dip for agonizing True Strike and Agonizing Green Flame Blade. That is a rather large boost to sneak attack damage and if you start Rogue and take 2 levels of Warlock you get a pretty big boost.

 

[ECMO3]

You can't use a scroll with a bonus action because the rules state "Casting the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal casting time."

The way I read the rules the Theif Use an Object overrides this:

Use an Object. Take the Utilize action, or take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action.

A scroll of Truestrike is a magic item that requires the Magic action (based on the text you quoted) .... so you can use it.