D&D (2024) 2024 Player’s Handbook is ‘Fastest Selling D&D Book Ever’

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It’s only officially been out for a week, but according to Wizards of the Coast, the new Dungeons & Dragons Player’s Handbook has already surpassed Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything to become the fastest selling D&D book ever—in the entire 50-year history of the game. It has sold three times as many copies as the 2014 version of the books did at launch.

Not only that, the 2024 Player’s Handbook was the biggest print run in D&D’s history.

In a press release today, WotC claims more than 85 million D&D fans worldwide, and says that D&D Beyond, the game’s official online platform, has over 18 million users.

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the 3700 are the number from Bookscan for 9/15/24 to 9/21/24, so would not include Gen Con, but they are complete nonsense either way
The warehouse for my local distributor had more than 3700 copies (I saw them the week before the game store release - they came in boxes of 10 books with flats of 6 rows of 6 stacks of 4 deep, which they had at least three of, or at LEAST 4200 copies (I'm betting that I'm estimating LOW here) and they are currently out, with stores wishing for more. (I'm not the only store that's out, in fact, word from customers is that I was one of the last stores in the area to run out, though I'm sure they didn't check every store).

So WotC quite likely beat that number in MY METRO AREA alone. (Or at least within a few hundred copies either side).
 

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This is what Bookscan includes in its numbers if you are curious. It does include Amazon, Barnes & Noble, BJs, Books-A-Million, Costco, Gamestop, Sam's Club, Target, Walmart, and 800 independent bookstores (among others).

Circana BookScan Data Providers | Publishers Marketplace
I think the problem is that you seem to think that the number shown there is actually correct and not some sort of extremely obvious misreporting.
 

you do realize that the OGL is completely meaningless for that extended base, it existing or not and its content make zero difference here, so that is absolutely not why WotC did what they did

???

I'm not sure what you are meaning. The OGL means nothing to those who are only using the D&D books. They aren't effected by it if the license changes as far as WotC is concerned.

It means a whole lot to those who are either playing games based on OGL (such as Advanced 5e for example). In fact, you may never even touch D&D and still be playing a game that utilizes the OGL.

It was an attempt to get money from the larger market. To bring money in from such things as the larger companies out there that may have games that were competing for the D&D market and to make money off of them.

Other areas which WotC/Hasbro have extended (in the recent past) to try to get money from fans rather than just the players would be things like the D&D movie, or looking into D&D shows. Both garner public awareness of the brand while at the same time bringing in those who may have no interest in playing the game, but have an interest in the brand itself.

The idea is NOT to cater just to the players, but to try to extend it so that it is more of a brand then just a game.

It's been ongoing. There have been several things which have given power to those who argue against some of the more insane movies that have been pushed (for example, the OGL changes). One of those is some of the same that have been brought up against my posts (hey...these aren't actually players, they are merely fans, and there aren't as many as you think there are...etc.). IF...and that's the IF...there are suddenly 60 million fans in the past 10 years...the question then comes about...where did these numbers come from?

60 million didn't just appear out of thin air. It's FAR harder to argue against certain types of monetization when those who are for that type of monetization point towards the idea that these are 60 million fans of the 5e version and are just as big as other consumer groups then it is when you can point out that it's merely 25 million.

It's so insane that SOME of those that have stood by your sides and fought against some of the monetization may actually say at some point...I"m done. I'm not fighting this anymore. It's insane. At this point, just show me the money cause I don't care anymore about anything else.

Cause really, if the fans don't even really care and are on the side of some VP that is doing this just to garner money from them...then why in the world should the others really care and change from the path they are being pushed towards?

When numbers are spouted...it's NOT for your benefit (believe it or not). This number if official, isn't being put out there so that players can cheer about it. It's not there just for hype. This is there for the investors (my view of it). If this is legit, it's for something else. Instead of just accepting it, people should start to question where this number is coming from. What backs it up.

The funny thing is...sometimes players and fans are fighting and trying to argue the very people that are defending the players, while empowering the very people that push things like the OGL changes, the Beyond modifications that were backtracked just recently, and other things. You can cheer the numbrs...but a jump of 60 million in that short of a time indicates over 100% growth at the most conservative, and up to 400% growth with a more liberal view.

I know no one wants to hear it here (and perhaps it's because no one really cares until it actually comes back to bite them)? but THIS is actually REALLY big for investors. That type of growth is massive.

People wonder how WotC came up with the idea to do the OGL changes, or why they do certain things with TV and media...they wonder what inspires them to do these things.

I'm right here, right now, pointing out one of the factors, and I'm telling you that if this is legit, it's going to cause an even greater push for even more monetization in ways that we probably can't even imagine at this point.

I'm finding that even though everyone SEEMS to complain when the events occur, no one really cares about WHY or WHAT causes them to occur in the first place.

But, I already knew that, unfortunately (and which of course should make me question, why even pursue trying to show people that here??? This probably will be the last post, because truthfully, me trying to defend it or explain it is really...not something I really have any desire to do anymore. I'm done with trying to be on the fans side I think). That's why...my original post was simply me throwing up my hands really, with the conjecture of how in the world that massive jump in numbers even happened (really, that type of growth in just the past few years...it wasn't long ago that they claimed 40 or 50 million) and instead of trying to figure out what actually WAS the reasoning behind it...simply said...okay...at this point...just show me the money.

I don't care anymore about whether they actually have 85 million fans or not as long as I see results and money pouring in. It makes no sense, but IF it really is true...then I expect them to monetize the heck out of this and bring in the money for all those who have HAS as part of their portfolios. I don't care about the complaints I'll see out of this. I just want to see results at this point. If it's true...I don't want them doing light miniscule stuff at monetization anymore....I want to actually SEE the big bucks and if not, I want someone held responsible for NOT bringing in the green.
 

Yes, exactly, we established in the discussions about your earlier Bookscan videos that those 800 bookstores do not include any game stores, these numbers completely exclide any sales from a FLGS.

Sam's Club, Target, Walmart, Gamestop, and Costco are not selling the PHB: Amazon is, but it is specifically not categorized as a book on Amazon right now (it was categorized as a toy), so I doubt it is reporting any sales to BookScan here.

Again, all this tells us is that they sold at least 3700 books that week, but we know they sold more through a number of outlets.

This is my impression.

The PHB (IMO, obviously) has been selling like hotcakes. Most of those sales have been via FLGS or otherwise. Most B&N, Target, Walmarts, etc don't have the books on the shelves yet from what I've seen. They are still in processing.

Anecdotally I haven't seen them on ANY of the B&N, Targets, or other big box stores I have visited in person recently. I don't think it's a lack of sales, its just not on the shelves yet.
The warehouse for my local distributor had more than 3700 copies (I saw them the week before the game store release - they came in boxes of 10 books with flats of 6 rows of 6 stacks of 4 deep, which they had at least three of, or at LEAST 4200 copies (I'm betting that I'm estimating LOW here) and they are currently out, with stores wishing for more. (I'm not the only store that's out, in fact, word from customers is that I was one of the last stores in the area to run out, though I'm sure they didn't check every store).

So WotC quite likely beat that number in MY METRO AREA alone. (Or at least within a few hundred copies either side).

I think that is a good example. If I recall, your distributor had almost all of those already spoken for as well (and you had to convince them that you had them reserved before they would give them to you or you would be out of luck to get them). This indicates that even in your local area, the PHB is doing well.

I also understand that there are more shipments, or they are trying to get more shipments out ASAP so that the availability will be there over the next few weeks for those who didn't have enough reserved. To me, I think that feels like the PHB is selling extremely well even before it's hit the big box stores.

IF the PHB didn't sell well, I think that would have been the shock of the decade. It was expected to sell well and it's going to help boost numbers this quarter. I'd even go as far as to say it may be selling better than some expected it to.
 

I don't really understand the BookScan number being shared for the first week. While Target and Walmart no longer carry the PH in stores, there are still many sources covered by BookScan that should be way higher than that. BookScan has in the past seemed to me to be roughly 23-44% of physical D&D book sales. FLGSs are important, but based on the prior ratios, the BookScan numbers should be higher, reflecting what so many are seeing at the FLGS level. It is doubtful that the first week in all of these BookScan sources would be so low. Maybe numbers haven't been fully reported, maybe Amazon isn't being included due to the listing being for both 2024 and 2014, who knows. Something is off.

I hope Stephen can share numbers over time to see whether BookScan becomes more plausible. (I join the chorus of folks asking for YouTube folks to be more responsible and less alarmist in their videos. Inform rather than shock, please. Thank you.)
 

Believe me or not, but this is what Bookscan is reporting. Here is the reporting directly:
Bookscan is not useful for this purpose. It does not tell you anything about the places where the majority of D&D sales take place, such as FLGS. (not to mention that in the US it has been in FLGS for nearly a month, but only went on general release last week).

Basically, it only tells you how many were sold through mainstream bookstores and the like (and not even all of them). It might be useful for novels, but for games like D&D it only gives you a fraction of the total sales.

But I'm only repeating what plenty of folks have already said here.
 
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I'm not sure what you are meaning. The OGL means nothing to those who are only using the D&D books. They aren't effected by it if the license changes as far as WotC is concerned.
whether it means nothing to those is debatable given that WotC course corrected over the backlash from that group…

In either case it means even less to those not playing D&D, or as you called them ‘That extended base of fans, users, or simply those who were aware’, minus those users that leaves fans and ‘people aware’, neither of which are affected by the OGL.

I guess what you mean is that it means nothing to those only using the official WotC books, D&D books are a lot more than those, and they are being bought by D&D ‘users’.

It means a whole lot to those who are either playing games based on OGL (such as Advanced 5e for example). In fact, you may never even touch D&D and still be playing a game that utilizes the OGL.
ok, and those using third party products for 5e rather than a related system. I consider all of these D&D ‘users’, I guess you draw a distinction here

It was an attempt to get money from the larger market. To bring money in from such things as the larger companies out there that may have games that were competing for the D&D market and to make money off of them.
and to an even larger part to make money off 3pps supplying the D&D market with their products. The D&D market is not just products that WotC sells, even though you seem to consider that to be all there is to it

Other areas which WotC/Hasbro have extended (in the recent past) to try to get money from fans rather than just the players would be things like the D&D movie, or looking into D&D shows.
and they can do so without changing the OGL, all their merchandise is completely unrelated to the OGL, so are their movies, books, or video games, etc.

The idea is NOT to cater just to the players, but to try to extend it so that it is more of a brand then just a game.
I understand that, but as I said, the OGL has nothing to do with that, at all

IF...and that's the IF...there are suddenly 60 million fans in the past 10 years...the question then comes about...where did these numbers come from?
I am not sure where you have that number from, but whatever it is, it is not fans, WotC never reported ‘fan’ numbers just either ‘players ever’ or ‘DDB users’ or something like that.

Anything beyond this point is some wild speculation with no basis in reality that I can detect, so I end it here
 

This article is a useful perspective on BookScan.


Basically. It reports about 50% of trade book sales. Trade sales being the important term here—FLGS are specialist stores. One comic book (which is sort of analogous to a game book, mainly sold through specialist comic stores) was 93% off due to this.

Also, Amazon reports sales figures monthly.

In short, WotC has not only sold 3,700 copies of the PHB. It just hasn’t.
 

This article is a useful perspective on BookScan.


Basically. It reports about 50% of trade book sales. Trade sales being the important term here—FLGS are specialist stores. One comic book (which is sort of analogous to a game book, mainly sold through specialist comic stores) was 93% off due to this.

Also, Amazon reports sales figures monthly.
The article is a little bit out of date, Bookscan is owned by Circana now and eBooks can be tracked. Convention sales can be tracked if set up correctly. As a regular book scan user, 9780786969517 is the Number listed for the 2024 PHB
However, the listing is not looking correct. It says the author is Diamond Comic Distributors Inc and the Publisher is PSI. PSI is probably the wholesaler supplying it to Diamond/Alliance. Overall it is a strange set up in Bookscan and I would not trust that sales listed in it at all. AS an edit. I also took a look at the 2014 PHB and PSI is now listed in Bookscan as the publisher of those books. ** My guess as to what is happening is that Amazon is listing sales as a toy and why it is not included in the numbers for Bookscan.
 
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I think the problem is that you seem to think that the number shown there is actually correct and not some sort of extremely obvious misreporting.
BookScan has never pretended to show all sales of a given book: usually they are said to represent about 75% of real sales. However, @Alphastream made a solid case comparing historical BookScan data with WotC actual sales numbers and estimated it is closer to 20% for D&D books. But this seems lower than that.
 

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