D&D General Warlocks: Charisma vs Intelligence

[abirdcall]

CHA is the stat associated with persuasion and deception, if 16 INT is smart enough to ward against a patron then 16 CHA is suave enough to smooth-talk them.
Edit: replied to the wrong message, meant to reply to @ad_hoc above

It's about research. The 16 Int isn't doing the warding. I have no trouble believing that a library in a city will have information on folklore.

Van Richten from Ravenloft is usually (if not always?) low level but he is successful because of his research. He knows what the vampires weaknesses are and brings them.

16 Cha enough to deceive an arch fey though or smooth talk them?

If they can do that then they can also succeed on any persuasion or deception checks against nearly all mortal beings.

 

[el-remmen]

I think all classes that aren’t the four classic ones should need two prime stats. So for Warlock both Int and Cha. But if i have to pick one then Cha.

 

[Imaro]

I'm a Constantine fan so give my warlocks Charisma.

 

[I'm A Banana]

You'd think it would be, but I'm not sure it's common for that to really be delved too deeply into. No matter who a warlock makes a pact with, it's often a very limited background with little impact on play; no madness, no lost soul, no loss of the granted power.

I find that it impacts play a lot because it impacts the characterization of the warlock character - players like answering the question of why they undertook the pact, why it was worth it, what they hope to do with it. Often, I've seen players answering this question with reference to the INT they used as a dump stat - "My character's not the cleverest, so they didn't really think through the consequences of their actions."

Which isn't to say it impacts them mechanically. Usually, it's a key part of the RP, though.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I like the choice, but I'd limit it one of two ways:

1. By patron. Archfey are doing it for amusement, so the better you negotiate, the better the deal. Charisma. Old Ones aren't even aware of you; you're trying to understand them. Intelligence. Etc (I could see genies using constitution.)

2. By spell type, kinda how 4e worked, and attempting to mirror the str/dex split of martials. But this works better if the whole magic system is retuned for this (Int for spells know/prepped, wis helps with slots, cha for spell power) - but you'd need a weird split like "Wisdom is for spall attacks but Cha is for save DCs"

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I am of two minds. On one hand, there is a lot of sneakiness and/or unsavoriness baked into the connotation of the warlock, and charisma skills fit that pretty well.

On the other hand, why do people with good charisma need to make deals to get power? What about the smart guy/gal who doesn't have rich parents or some kind of institutional benefactor who can give them the time and resources to study magic? It seems like those guys/gals would be smart enough to try to find a short cut, even if it was a dangerous one. Smart and bitter; that is practically the supervillain class, which definitely fits the connotation of the warlock.

On the third hand, if you were a patron, why would you want either of those two types as your client? Seems like a lot of trouble. Maybe if the warlock's spells cost hit points instead of spell slots, and you and the warlock split the value of any hit points of damage the warlock did to a living being, then you would at least get paid and motivates the warlock to be a murderhobo. So maybe the constitution warlock works best?

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I could take either Charisma or Intelligence but no others. Also, I think it needs to be one or the other, not varying by individual. I like spellcasting to have clear definition.

So I would play in the game of a DM that kept it as Cha or switched it to Int; I might grudgingly play in a game where you could choose between those two; and it would be a harder sell to get me in a game where it was looser than that.

 

[Charlaquin]

Keep Warlocks Charisma-based. Move Sorcerers to Wisdom-based and Clerics to Intelligence-based.

 

[Xeviat]

Someone who's full of themselves with confidence and also low wisdom. ;-)

Oooh, high charisma and low int and wisdom? Dangerous mix.

 

[Xeviat]

Personally (and I fully expect to be flamed severely chastized for this), I think it's a mistake to put this sort of consideration ahead of what makes most sense for the fiction.

Fair, but I really really really really love when the grid is filled. When 4E made rangers martial, I was miffed but then curious because I thought maybe they'd be the martial controller. And then they weren't and I forever glared at that missing slot (and my missing dragon eevee).