D&D General Greyhawk Humanocentricism?

[Micah Sweet]

I'm sending you this classic t for Christmas. Enjoy.

...Thanks? Not sure what this is about.

 

[Voadam]

whispers Highfolk, too, and one of the Ulek states whispers

I knew I missed some elven places, Highfolk and the Duchy of Ulek. Good catch.

 

[billd91]

My opinion: Greyhawk's supposed humanocentrism exists only in theory, not in practice.

Hardly any of the adventure modules are centered on humans. You're always going out and finding some enclave of giants or goblinoids or fishmen or wierd underdark race. Meanwhile, the game rules have always encouraged parties to include a variety of races (because that means a variety of characters with different capabilities).

Of course most adventure modules aren’t centered on humans. You don’t often find adventure in the peaceful neighborhoods and farms where most humans are. Published fantasy adventures happen in fantastic places, remote and wondrous. Adventure sites and packs of weirdo adventurers are outliers by their nature and aren’t good indicators of what normal life is like.

 

[billd91]

On the subject of Greyhawk humanocentrism, I have to ask if it was intentional in the sense that they wanted that to be a hallmark of the setting, or was it the natural byproduct of the game overall being as humanocentric as it was designed to be. I don’t think Greyhawk’s humanocentrism really stands out as something distinctively Greyhawkian. It was just D&D being D&D.

 

[Clint_L]

I was flicking through Dragon Magazine 241 (1997) and in an article by Roger Moore about adding additional PC races (including Derro, Skulks, Jermlaine and Dopplegangers) came across the following quote:

"The GREYHAWK® campaign, like all others, is open to the development of new PC races. However, any races addedshould maintain the campaign’s overall flavor, which is particulary humanocentric. Humans are the true shakers andmovers of this setting; demihumans and humanoids hold second place, and monsters like dragons, beholders, and soforth come in a distant third..."
My own world is very humanocentric, to the extent that Dwarfs dont exist, Elfs arent a playable race (though half-elfs are) and Halflings are a type fae too. (Goblins, Gnomes, Half-Giants and Saurian are playable however)

So just how Humanocentric is your game and with the resurgence of Greyhawk how do you think the ideal of a "particulary humanocentric" world as a design principle would go down with contemporary players?

Not humanocentric at all. They’re just another species.

 

[Tonguez]

Of course most adventure modules aren’t centered on humans. You don’t often find adventure in the peaceful neighborhoods and farms where most humans are. Published fantasy adventures happen in fantastic places, remote and wondrous. Adventure sites and packs of weirdo adventurers are outliers by their nature and aren’t good indicators of what normal life is like.

Homlett, Saltmarsh and Geoff were human dominated, the threats were inhuman but the heroes were mostly working for humans.

And yeah those monsters were located elsewhere "on the Borderlands" as it were.

and I suppose most fantasy was very much that - Conan, Lord Dunsanys stories, Fafnr, Grimms collection, all feature humans pitted against the inhuman other. We continue to tell stories about ourselves

 

[Voadam]

So just how Humanocentric is your game

For my mashup homebrew setting I think about Greyhawk levels.

Most current places are big time human dominated, but there are plenty of nonhumans in most areas and some specifically nonhuman kingdoms. A big human focus but plenty of room for whatever PCs and lots of nonhuman NPCs.

My setting includes a bunch of Golarion elements, including Elven Kyonin and Orcish Belkzen Badlands.

 

[Voadam]

and with the resurgence of Greyhawk how do you think the ideal of a "particulary humanocentric" world as a design principle would go down with contemporary players?

I think it would be relatable.

Room for plenty of nonhumans but kingdoms are generally dominated by humans even if there are plenty of nonhumans there too.

I see a lot of FR, Dragonlance, and Eberron the same way. Star Wars too for that matter.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

But even then, most popular ranks at about 30% or so. That means 70% are non humans.

Which is certainly not reflected in the settings where every town/city/country with a couple of exceptions are human dominated.

I mean Saltmarsh is mentioned. Yet there is virtually no reason for Saltmarsh to be predominantly human. You have a massive forest with strong faewild ties about a day away. You have the Hool Marsh- an area about the size of the Florida Everglades, chock a block with non-humans. You have the Holds of the Sea Barons right there with huge non-human populations. Let’s not forget large populations of aquatic races right there too.

But Saltmarsh is like 90% human? Why?

Cause it's a fishing town of a human nation. It's mentioned they don't really have any issues with elves, dwarves and halflings coming by.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

I mean Saltmarsh is mentioned. Yet there is virtually no reason for Saltmarsh to be predominantly human. You have a massive forest with strong faewild ties about a day away. You have the Hool Marsh- an area about the size of the Florida Everglades, chock a block with non-humans. You have the Holds of the Sea Barons right there with huge non-human populations. Let’s not forget large populations of aquatic races right there too.

But Saltmarsh is like 90% human? Why?

Why would the non-humans want to live in Saltmarsh instead of their existing homes?